DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

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DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby Nnnnsic on Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:34 pm

Hey. It's a news item from me for a change. Just to tell you all, I'm not dead and neither is the forum. We're working on a project called "Synthesis" which I'm hoping will be done in time for the 5th Anniversary of the forum in August. Can you believe it's been that long?

While Version 2.0 was little more than a push into phpBB 3.0 with a portal system, a move which annoyed many people, "Synthesis" is very different. We've looked back at the concept of what D70 Users & DSLR Users was originally created for.

I'm not sure how many people can remember, but the forum was initially created as a way for people with cameras to get together, talk, and learn from each other. I think it's safe to say that much of the forum's roots is embedded in the concept of education. Most of us are happy to help newbies & beginners with photography skills, understanding lighting, and instructing in the various digital (and sometimes analog) post-processing methods.

Somewhere along the way, our little community became messy and chaotic. Whether you choose to see the tyranny of an admin or disagreement between its members, something occurred that made this place stagnate and sort of... stop. The Global Financial Crisis certainly didn't help things and I can easily admit to losing interest in a place I'd once called a home. It still sits as the top bookmark on my Firefox browser bar next to my gallery & blog admin, and that's mostly because I'm too lazy to move it.

But in the past few months, there's been a feeling of rekindling... and with the 5th Anniversary on the way, it's time we made a change that everyone gets in.

So I'm now announcing DSLR Version 3.0, also known as "Synthesis", a design that hopes to change our humble place for the better. The concept is pretty simple: a website that aims to cut down on all the bullshit and become a great place to chat and learn about photography.

If you look at some of the background we've created - with the forum, the meets, the bargains, and even CHIMP - we certainly have enough material and members willing to help out and make the photographic community a vibrant and welcoming place.

Synthesis looks to combine the efforts we did on CHIMP with a dynamic web portal, a clean bulletin board, and a store that's easy to use. I'm looking at Wordpress for the CHIMP side of things and there is a dev site already up and running. If you want to help out with design, testing, and writing for it, send me a private message.

As a result, CHIMP (while still retaining its original meaning) will also essentially mean "Community Helping Individuals Make Pictures" since really, that's what this whole thing is about.

The forum too will get cleaned up and we'll look at ways of making it function better. We've already had a request for an iPhone DSLR Users App and if there's enough support, it's certainly something we could do.

The store will too get a revamp because its the few bucks we make on items that go into the running of the website.

But this isn't just what I have in mind for the site. We're tossing up a lot of options, and I know my test server is literally loaded with choices that DSLR Users could take. So I want to know what you want. This isn't a singular decision and I want community involvement.

For the forum to change - and change for the better - everyone needs to jump on board.
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby ATJ on Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:58 pm

Nnnnsic wrote:...disagreement between its members...

I disagree. There is no disagreement between the members. ;)
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby surenj on Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:41 pm

Nnnnsic wrote:Somewhere along the way, our little community became messy and chaotic. Whether you choose to see the tyranny of an admin or disagreement between its members, something occurred that made this place stagnate and sort of... stop


I hadn't noticed! but then I haven't been around for too long.

Stagnance may be a problem in all forums I suspect. Do you think we have been affected more than others?

Were you thinking about incorporating e-commerce web component with HKsupplies?
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby Reschsmooth on Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:17 pm

ATJ wrote:
Nnnnsic wrote:...disagreement between its members...

I disagree. There is no disagreement between the members. ;)


You're wrong, Andrew. But I will stop there. :biglaugh:

I think there has been a fair bit of lively debate such as within the thread regarding the portrait prize winner which is a good thing.

I have noticed that there has also been a bit more recalcitrance on here on petty issues than there used to be. Don't ask me to provide examples as none come to mind and I couldn't do so anyway, without pointing fingers, which I don't want to do.
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby colin_12 on Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:23 pm

I would like to see chimp up and running again. I know it was a load of work for you.
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby Matt. K on Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:39 pm

Leigh
Do it.
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby Killakoala on Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:16 pm

What Matt said.


A change is as good as a holiday, unless its a change for the worse, but that could just be a bad holiday, but we'll never know if you don't change it. It's all part of the adventure. :)
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby Glen on Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:19 pm

Great news Leigh
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby radar on Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:09 am

sounds like a great idea Leigh. These days, there are a lot of things pulling at us to get our attention. Change is part of what keeps people interested, gets new people in, etc.

CHIMP re-vitalised would certainly be welcomed.

For me, an iphone version would be a nice to have. Concentrate on the main forums and the synthesis first. Safari is on the iphone so people can still browse. Sure, make it mobile device friendly but initially, don't use too much resources with that side of the forums, just MHO.

Most important, keep the info coming to wet our appetite :D

cheers,

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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby Willy wombat on Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:41 am

I would like you guys to consider a weekly challenge run through the site to decide on POTW

Much like the way this one is run
http://wetpixel.com/competition/
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby Mj on Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:56 am

Whilst I'm not sure I agree that this place has stagnated or become unduly chaotic, I always think it worthwhile reviewing and exploring improvements and sometimes change for change sake... even if the process simply brings you back to where you started !!!
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby gstark on Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:55 pm

Willy wombat wrote:I would like you guys to consider a weekly challenge run through the site to decide on POTW


We already have something different in train for an upcoming PotW .... Greg will be announcing that in a couple of days.

And we also have the DTC bi-monthly challenges.

Are you looking to replace the way the existing PotW is run? If so, why? I am seriously interested in any and all discussion on these points, btw.


Mj wrote:Whilst I'm not sure I agree that this place has stagnated or become unduly chaotic


I look at the daily post counts, which are down from where they have been, and from where I think they should be. They're probably down to around 30% of where they were two years ago. I think that's a cause for concern. I see the lack of interest in the recent challenges that we've held as being a cause for concern.

While the GFC has certainly taken its toll, much of this goes back beyond the start of the GFC, so I don't accept that the GFC is the primary issue.
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby Willy wombat on Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:02 pm

gstark wrote:
Willy wombat wrote:I would like you guys to consider a weekly challenge run through the site to decide on POTW


We already have something different in train for an upcoming PotW .... Greg will be announcing that in a couple of days.

And we also have the DTC bi-monthly challenges.

Are you looking to replace the way the existing PotW is run? If so, why? I am seriously interested in any and all discussion on these points, btw.


I look forward to seeing what comes up Gary.

To build further on my previous post - I like the idea of a themed weekly competition that can host the entries and is built right into the front end of the website/forum. Maybe add a navigation button right on top of the site like

Portal
Board
Index
Recent Topics
Search
Members FAQ
Bargains
POTW Competition

That way it would be easily seen and accessed by all the members, and voted on by the active users. It could encourage people to post more quality work on the site, and act as a place people can go for inspriration (a collection of beautiful images against the theme). Top three weekly entries could be promoted and incorporated into the Chimp magazine too.

People probably wont enter every images each week (some themes might be more popular than others), but they could still look at the entries and give their top three votes and then discuss the images after the votes had been made.

The key ingregients that I have found in the successful wetpixel example that I posted previously are that it is made an integral part of forum and the images that are entered are hosted by the forum and displayed in an automated manner.
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby Onyx on Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:29 pm

1) make this place friendlier to navigate to new users. My suggestion would be to cut down on the number of subforums, some of which rarely gets a post in two months. The list of forum sections seems unnecessarily long.

2) make this place friendlier to navigate for returning users. eg. admins and mods should enforce thread titles to reflect the contents of the post. This makes searching for past threads on certain content/ideas more feasible. I can recall in the past, the admins/mods getting pissed off with newbies not searching and posting the same damn thing six times. Hence the "refer to the FAQ" type responses became commonplace. Perhaps I may be the exception that I search before I post anything, always with the assumption that if I am having a(n) problem/issue, there will inevitably have been others who have experienced the same thing.

3) gimme some more time to think about what else I could bitch about....
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby gstark on Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:13 pm

Onyx wrote:1) make this place friendlier to navigate to new users. My suggestion would be to cut down on the number of subforums, some of which rarely gets a post in two months. The list of forum sections seems unnecessarily long.


So, "OK" Thinks me.

And then I go and look at which of our forum sections - how many of them - have the most recent post that is over two months old.

There's DSLRUsers History, Information (exactly two months), Challenges, Canberra, Rest Of The World, Tutorials, Personal Photographic Journeys, Food and Drink, Nerd and Pendant Corner, Wiki and Members Discounts.

Of those, I think that I can safely snip Wiki and probably Rest Of the World.

The rest of those are, by their very nature, special interest forum sections, and by design I think that it's expected that any input may well be sporadic.

People have been saying that we should reduce the number of forum sections, and I have no dispute with that line of thought. The problem I have is in deciding which ones should go away.

I like the concept of our special interest sections - I think that it helps give the place some personality, and adds to the resource that we're able to provide. You only need to look to the current discussion on the Medion tablets for evidence of this.

Contrast that with the occasional requests put forward to me for extra sections: some I readily see and go with, others I need convincing of, but this all comes back to the same basic questions: do we have too many? Do we not have enough?

It's all too easy to answer both of those questions in the affirmative. It's far more difficult to quantify one's answers.

I fully appreciate that some of the members might not appreciate, say, the food and wine section. But I'm not too fond of some certain types of photos either; we can't all be winners, can we? :)


2) make this place friendlier to navigate for returning users. eg. admins and mods should enforce thread titles to reflect the contents of the post.


I've never really considered this to be an issue; what do others think?

In terms of searching - and I've found that this is true beyond the forum - one needs to sometimes be creative in how your query is framed. A search for x and y may not yield anything like what you're looking for, but a search for y and x might.

In phpbb2 I felt that the search facility was worth exactly what the forum software cost, but in phpbb3, I've found that it largely seems to work.


gimme some more time to think about what else I could bitch about....
[it could be my time of the month]


Bitch away. Please.

And others, too. To be of real value, this needs to be a meaningful dialog between as many of our members as possible.
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby chrisk on Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:46 pm

i'll start this by saying i very much enjoy this forum and i like hearing the views of the members here. i dont have a bitch as much as some general comments...

what i have found a little frustrating in the last few months is the lack of comments when posting images for critique. if you consider the amount of effort put into resizing, posting etc onto the forum to have 80 views and 2 comments is quite frustrating. its either that the pics suck, in which case it would be nice to know whats not appealing and what could be done better, the pics are of no interest to forum members, (familiarity with eachother or just plain boring subject matter ?), or people just cant be bothered posting a comment. that has nothing to do with GFC, thats just laziness and/or indifference. so to be honest...i just dont see much point in posting any images in threads anymore. i tried again recently but get very little response.

i'll go a step further here...the description of the forum says "got a thin skin then look elsewhere"...perhaps at one point in time this were true but certainly not anymore. there is very little if any critique at all. some of the more experienced members here could lead by example and take the time to post their thoughts.

i have suggested this before but it seems the majority dont agree with me but id like to see a "pic of the day" sticky thread in the image review forum where people can post images that aren't necessarily for a dedicated thread. there have been a few times i've wanted to post an image but there seems little use in posting one given the lack of comments when i post 4. that's not necessarily for works of art as opposed to just a pic for general viewing and the odd comment. i'd prefer to see alot of pics in one thread that i can scroll thru.

size limitations to 800px is annoying to me, i think it should be 1000px to get a better impression of the image. does anyone here really have a monitor so small that 1000px is too big ??

as for the meets. i'd love to go to some of them but they are all weekends when i generally have work on. i'd love to see some midweek shoots for those of us that have the time...if there are any ??

for listings, i have no prob with the number of forums but i'd like to see the most common forums listed first and all together. for me, i;d like to see the following at the very top:

General discussion
Image reviews
Nikon
Canon

the rest can stay but the above are surely the most viewed/ used.

as a community we all have a responsibility to lift our game and put in a little more effort. it is the collection of all of us that makes a place great, if we collectively dont comment and dont post then we will collectively lose what we loved the most about the community.

end of rant...fire away... :lol:
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby sirhc55 on Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:56 pm

Locate target, take aim, fire :rotfl2:

You are so right Rooz. I must admit that in the past few months I have been very lax on posting comments, let alone pics :| and that’s after over 11,000 posts. I will pick up my game after reading your words :wink:
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby whitey on Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:15 pm

Here are my thoughts for what they are worth. Some of them echo points already made.

1. I would like to be able to post a larger image than the current limit.
2. I like the current level of moderation, wouldnt like to see it increased.
3. I havent posted much recently because I have been really busy and mostly have been doing family happy snaps
4. Agree we need to get off our own arses and post more feedback in the critique forum.
5. I wouldnt mind a weekly thread where we all post a shot we like, not necessarily for feedback but just too share. This would see me more active.
6. We need a few more meets I reckon, maybe some mini meets. Shouldnt rely on the usual suspects to organise them.

Personally I just havent been shooting much lately, no particular reason just busy. I need to pull my finger out.
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby gstark on Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:31 pm

Rooz wrote:i'll start this by saying i very much enjoy this forum and i like hearing the views of the members here. i dont have a bitch as much as some general comments...


Which are always most welcome.

what i have found a little frustrating in the last few months is the lack of comments when posting images for critique.


This has always been an issue, but it's one that is difficult to address. Can I force a member to offer critique? Nope! So we're left with the current ad-hoc method., and there's no choice but to try to deal with it.


its either that the pics suck, in which case it would be nice to know whats not appealing and what could be done better, the pics are of no interest to forum members, (familiarity with eachother or just plain boring subject matter ?), or people just cant be bothered posting a comment.


Or perhaps that there's nothing that any given critic can offer.

I look at a great many images - probably more than most others here - but I often find that there's little that I can offer.

And I am very firmly in the camp that, if there's nothing to be said, then nothing is precisely what I will say.

And to be perfectly honest, I am far happier with that approach than seeing a ton of "nice image" posts. There's not much that would piss me off more, to be perfectly frank.

Also, I often hold back on critique postings: this is not my forum, despite my ownership. I like to see what others have to say, and I enjoy seeing the critiques of others.

i tried again recently but get very little response.


I get even less reaction when I post images. But my images do suck, which is why I don't post all that often.

i'll go a step further here...the description of the forum says "got a thin skin then look elsewhere"...perhaps at one point in time this were true but certainly not anymore. there is very little if any critique at all. some of the more experienced members here could lead by example and take the time to post their thoughts.


While I will accept that there is not the level or quantity of critique that I would like to see, I will challenge you here: sometimes a critique may be quite incisive; and it's always important to bear in mind that we are looking at the image - which may include a person's techniques. Criticising one's techniques is not a personal attack, but some people are more precious than others.


i have suggested this before but it seems the majority dont agree with me but id like to see a "pic of the day" sticky thread in the image review forum where people can post images that aren't necessarily for a dedicated thread. there have been a few times i've wanted to post an image but there seems little use in posting one given the lack of comments when i post 4. that's not necessarily for works of art as opposed to just a pic for general viewing and the odd comment. i'd prefer to see alot of pics in one thread that i can scroll thru.


Where do you draw the line between images for critique, as against images for general display?

This is not an appropriate place for images that show us where somebody spent their weekend 4WDing, getting bogged in the process, and the party that they had at the 4WD campsite last Saturday night. And Sunday morning.

But if during that trip you encountered a couple of lace monitors, and you wanted to understand how your shots of them might be able to be improved, then fine.

There's a very fine balance that's involved here: we are a community, and as such, we readily accept that there are many family events (for instance) that we should be involved in or have knowledge of.

Within the context of what I've described - and please, this is a serious question - how might one define an image "for general viewing" ?

size limitations to 800px is annoying to me, i think it should be 1000px to get a better impression of the image. does anyone here really have a monitor so small that 1000px is too big ??


That's not the only issue. The forum software's built in formatting doesn't let us display bigger images, and it even gets upset over images that are just on 800px wide.

That said, I personally prefer the 800px size. Strange as it may sound (for a photography forum) I don't want the images to take over my monitor. Bear in mind that I work mostly on a small MacBook with very limited screen real estate. Larger images would simply and very quickly scroll off my screen, and that makes viewing them very difficult. People posting images can always (and very often do) very easily post links to their galleries, where larger versions of the images may be hosted.

as for the meets. i'd love to go to some of them but they are all weekends when i generally have work on. i'd love to see some midweek shoots for those of us that have the time...if there are any ??


Over the last few of months there have been several, in fact. There was a mid-week meeting for the Vivid Sydney stuff, and we also had a couple of restaurant evenings in Newtown and Glebe. There's more of this being planned too.

for listings, i have no prob with the number of forums but i'd like to see the most common forums listed first and all together. for me, i;d like to see the following at the very top:

General discussion
Image reviews
Nikon
Canon


I very rarely look at the forum section listings, truth be told. I just go to the portal page, and then to the recent posts pages.

But that's just me. How do others use the various forum pages?

it is the collection of all of us that makes a place great, if we collectively dont comment and dont post then we will collectively lose what we loved the most about the community.


Exactly. Well said.
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby phillipb on Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:35 pm

With regards to comments on photos, I'm with Gary. I tend to say nothing when I don't feel I can offer something constructive. It's also a matter of timing, If someone else beats me to it and says what I would have said, I tend not to add to it. I suppose I should because if 10 people say the same thing, it must be true.
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby chrisk on Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:54 pm

gstark wrote:This has always been an issue, but it's one that is difficult to address. Can I force a member to offer critique? Nope! So we're left with the current ad-hoc method., and there's no choice but to try to deal with it.


this wasn't a personal reference to you gary so dont take this personally. lol . :lol: :oops: to answer your question, no you cant force anyone. thats why we're here in this thread though isnt it ? do we just give up on it ? in which case i think the forum will get less and less traffic as less and less comments and critiques are being offered.

I look at a great many images - probably more than most others here - but I often find that there's little that I can offer. And I am very firmly in the camp that, if there's nothing to be said, then nothing is precisely what I will say. And to be perfectly honest, I am far happier with that approach than seeing a ton of "nice image" posts. There's not much that would piss me off more, to be perfectly frank.


i disagree with you on a few points here. firstly...nothing to be said ? are you trying to tell me that with 100 odd views of an image that only 2 or 3 comments can be made ? 2 or 3% ? wow. that doesn't say much about us as a community does it ?

and secondly, whats wrong with saying "i like that" and leaving it alone ? sure, most of us prefer more detail to a post but imho, showing some appreciation for an image is almost as important as providing insight into one. its not about ego, when someone says "great shot" its also about someone saying..."hey, thanks for sharing that with us, thanks for getting up at the crack of dawn and showing me the sunrise. thanks for taking the time to process it and post it here."

I get even less reaction when I post images. But my images do suck, which is why I don't post all that often.


and thus we have the law of diminishing returns. if people dont comment, then less people take the effort to post which means theres less to look at which mens people visit less often which means theres less people to comment etc etc etc

While I will accept that there is not the level or quantity of critique that I would like to see, I will challenge you here: sometimes a critique may be quite incisive; and it's always important to bear in mind that we are looking at the image - which may include a person's techniques.


possibly some yes. its rare though.

some people are more precious than others.


then doesn't that go against the spirit of the description of the forum ? if people are precious then i put to you that all they want is a gallery. which is ok, but its not suitable for CRITIQUE which is what the forum was designed for was it not ?

Where do you draw the line between images for critique, as against images for general display?


i think its up to the poster to decide that.

This is not an appropriate place for images that show us where somebody spent their weekend 4WDing, getting bogged in the process, and the party that they had at the 4WD campsite last Saturday night. And Sunday morning.


why ? i think it will help people get to know eachother better. give people a more personal insight into others lives and places of interest. isnt the "appropriateness" of the forum what the members think it should be ? why do we need rules behind that ? if its a cost/ bandwidth issue then sure. i get that. but if its just a "in principal" objection, i'd like to explore the reasons for this a little more cos i dont understand it.

Within the context of what I've described - and please, this is a serious question - how might one define an image "for general viewing" ?


as i said before. the member can decide that cant they ?

Over the last few of months there have been several, in fact. There was a mid-week meeting for the Vivid Sydney stuff, and we also had a couple of restaurant evenings in Newtown and Glebe. There's more of this being planned too.


sorry, should have been more specific, weekday.

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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby whitey on Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:01 pm

Rooz wrote: whats wrong with saying "i like that" and leaving it alone ?

:agree: Sometimes all thats needed in terms of feedback is confirming its a good shot imo.

In reading the introduction to the Image Review and Critique Forum its states - "Please note that this is not an area for you to showcase your images, nor is this a place for you to show-off where you have been. This is an area for you to post images so that you may share with us a technique that you have mastered, or are trying to master."

Because of this I sometimes go to other forums to share some of my general images.

Edit: Just wanted to add that I'm still very happy with this forum. Its the one that hooked me back into photography and I still visit daily.
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby biggerry on Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:00 pm

I think this is a good healthy thread which hopefully will produce some results, with that said, I think I will share some of my thoughts...I have been around for over a year, which is not that long in terms of some of the members here but should at least give me a shoe-in :wink:

I frequent a number of forums, all australian based, however only post in one, DSLRusers, I feel i do not need to spread my seed far and wide and think putting in a decent effort at one location is better than do a half arsed job over seven. There were a couple of resons for choosing this forum as a home, firstly, it was locally based, secondly and probably most key, is that it is clean simple forum without the bullshit of 50 line signatures etc and is very easy to read - important as the years go on :) Additionally there appeared to be a more discerning crowd here (don't ask me what that means, cause I am still trying to work it out myself).

and secondly, whats wrong with saying "i like that"


I personally think that 15 response of that to a thread is like pissing in someones pocket (one or two I think are probably ok). If you can manage the effort to pop out a reply with 5 words surely its not that much of stretch to really try and engage the OP and their image(s), whether that be in relating to the image, asking questions about it or a 10 word critique. I personally try and only use the "i like that" if I am really really strapped for time or the images have been more than adequately responded too.

little frustrating in the last few months is the lack of comments when posting images for critique

true, keep in mind we probably all get that - I can think a number of times when I have posted images thinking, "yeah these are gonna get some great response" but get 2, 3 word replies and thats it. Post fall between the cracks, or at a time when not many people are on etc.

Leading on from that, I find it much easier to engage and respond to posters who I know and who have commented on my images, I am not saying its a tit for tat thing but it makes it easier to respond thats all, for me anyway. Its also frustrating when you engage a OP and their picture and get no love back - Its important to appreciate that people have taken the time responds and provide their thoughts! Time is not free and is valuable, it does not hurt to show your appreciation by responding to those critiquer's. Also I find it hard to respond to threads which are posted across multiple forums, I just see these are think, oh well they will get a response over "there" and not say anything.

I personally prefer the 800px size


I also like the 800px restriction, its certianly enough to be critique or adequately view the image also the option linking is always there. I was recently on dialup in the country and basically did not both trying to visit the forums because of the speed - I really feel for users out there who have to endure that ALL the time. Whilst I have large monitors at work and home, all that real estate is never dedicated to browser only and the 800px works quite nicely - its also nice since the image file since from a 800px image is just about perfect for emailing also - multi-purpose!

Over the last few of months there have been several, in fact. There was a mid-week meeting for the Vivid Sydney stuff, and we also had a couple of restaurant evenings in Newtown and Glebe. There's more of this being planned too.


Quite frankly, people need to make the effort to get there (dont take that as a personal attack on anyone), if someone is going to the effort to organise a meet and 3 people turn up, wheres the incentive for next time. I remember the first one I went to, at Macquaries Chair (April or something 2008), there was heaps of people there! it was awesome (can you tell I dont get out with photo people much :cough: ). I appreciate it is hard when things clash and times are not suitable, and those with children and families it gets more complicated - but maybe put it out tehre what times are suitable - have a poll for the most suitable time?

We need a few more meets I reckon, maybe some mini meets. Shouldnt rely on the usual suspects to organise them.
:agree:

some of the more experienced members here could lead by example and take the time to post their thoughts.

:agree:

especially those with experience, I would love to get some harsh (maybe not the right word, maybe hard) critique, getting some good criticism might get some more people thinking and posting in response?!

In terms of searching - and I've found that this is true beyond the forum - one needs to sometimes be creative in how your query is framed. A search for x and y may not yield anything like what you're looking for, but a search for y and x might.


searching was down right pain in the butt to start with, easy once you know how but searching should be the easiest thing around for a forum. I know you are probably limited by the software, but if any improvement can be made here that would be great, maybe if search results came back threaded, rather than displaying the 50 responses with the search term in it separately - just a thought.

do we have too many? Do we not have enough?


number of forums are fine and dandy for me, Its good to have things nicely categorised - I mainly navigate using the recent posts tab and since i visit fairly frequently I don't miss much and do not need to jump into the board index.

i'd prefer to see alot of pics in one thread that i can scroll thru.


on that note, this would be great for POTW and challenge entries, the ability to just browse through all the POTW and comp pictures without having to jump into each thread would be marvellous. Basically alittle photo eyecandy.

Willy wombat wrote:I would like you guys to consider a weekly challenge run through the site to decide on POTW
We already have something different in train for an upcoming PotW .... Greg will be announcing that in a couple of days.


looking forward to it!

holy crap this is getting long, I can't remember what i started with in this post so a better shudup....
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby aim54x on Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:16 pm

Just to add my 2c

-I like the 800pixel resolution...I have adopted it for my website as well (good enough to have a look, too small to be worth printing - hence fewer stolen photos)
-I have to admit I have been guilty of not commenting on things recently...a lot of the time I feel like I am repeating what has already been said...and other times it is just a simple "I like it"
-I agree with Gerry that searching is a bit of a pain...but I use it here and there and have gotten some results
-I use the portal page and the links for new posts..so I dont mind the current forum listing

- I DO like the sound of more meets (I will try to come to more)
-
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby surenj on Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:28 am

Can I be different and say that I quite like the way it is now. I love change, and wouldn't mind that at all. While you are at it, I would like the facility to view the posts that haven't got a single response. It is a crime not to respond to someone's image that they posted for critique!! :shock:

It would be interesting to see whether some of these changes increases the critique rates. I would remain pessimistic but would love to be proven wrong.

It's very interesting to see that even in this discussion, the most active members are the one's taking part. I suppose it makes sense.

Nice innovation Leigh ... Can't wait.
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby aim54x on Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:35 am

surenj wrote:I would like the facility to view the posts that haven't got a single response.

There is a link to viewed unanswered posts already on the Board Index page next to the view new posts link.

surenj wrote:It is a crime not to respond to someone's image that they posted for critique!! :shock:

Yes and no...if it is not constructive then is it worth the comment?
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby surenj on Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:45 am

aim54x wrote:
surenj wrote:It is a crime not to respond to someone's image that they posted for critique!! :shock:

Yes and no...if it is not constructive then is it worth the comment?

Does this mean that one shouldn't comment at all if the photo is excellent?
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby aim54x on Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:59 am

surenj wrote:
aim54x wrote:
surenj wrote:It is a crime not to respond to someone's image that they posted for critique!! :shock:

Yes and no...if it is not constructive then is it worth the comment?

Does this mean that one shouldn't comment at all if the photo is excellent?


SORRY :ot: there usually should be a reason as to why you think it is excellent...but then again I am guilty of the 'I like it' comment....

On the other hand the critique that it is not good without and constructive suggestions is not nice
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby ATJ on Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:24 am

Rooz wrote:what i have found a little frustrating in the last few months is the lack of comments when posting images for critique. if you consider the amount of effort put into resizing, posting etc onto the forum to have 80 views and 2 comments is quite frustrating. its either that the pics suck, in which case it would be nice to know whats not appealing and what could be done better, the pics are of no interest to forum members, (familiarity with eachother or just plain boring subject matter ?), or people just cant be bothered posting a comment. that has nothing to do with GFC, thats just laziness and/or indifference. so to be honest...i just dont see much point in posting any images in threads anymore. i tried again recently but get very little response.

i'll go a step further here...the description of the forum says "got a thin skin then look elsewhere"...perhaps at one point in time this were true but certainly not anymore. there is very little if any critique at all. some of the more experienced members here could lead by example and take the time to post their thoughts.

i have suggested this before but it seems the majority dont agree with me but id like to see a "pic of the day" sticky thread in the image review forum where people can post images that aren't necessarily for a dedicated thread. there have been a few times i've wanted to post an image but there seems little use in posting one given the lack of comments when i post 4. that's not necessarily for works of art as opposed to just a pic for general viewing and the odd comment. i'd prefer to see alot of pics in one thread that i can scroll thru.

I may be in the minority, here, but I very much agree with you.

It was probably well over a year ago when I brought this up. I remember how I got absolutely jumped on for even suggesting it and that it was all in my head, or I was being precious, or I should be out taking photos rather than complaining. Like you I have tried a few times to post images for critique but have long since given up. I do see some really good critique from time to time but generally there is very little and I see little value (personally) in trying to get comments.
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby surenj on Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:30 am

Cameron, point taken.

One other question to ask would be, is there any other forum where the response quantity and quality is much better? If so, why? That might help answer the lack of critiques.
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby surenj on Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:40 am

whitey wrote:
Rooz wrote: whats wrong with saying "i like that" and leaving it alone ?

:agree: Sometimes all thats needed in terms of feedback is confirming its a good shot imo.


:agree:
At the end of the day, we want to know whether the shot we post is either good or bad. Personally if I don't get much response, I can't make up my mind. It is great to get lots of comments saying either it's crap or great. At least you get some feedback. If you wanted, you could try and discuss why it's crap or great... If you get nothing, then you get to discuss nothing. You will be left wondering whether anyone actually saw the image... Maybe you'd move on to another community......
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby ATJ on Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:44 am

surenj wrote:If you get nothing, then you get to discuss nothing. You will be left wondering whether anyone actually saw the image... Maybe you'd move on to another community......

Which is exactly what I did for critique on my images.
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby Nnnnsic on Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:15 am

I rarely get critique on my images and that's pretty much been the way it's been since we started the forum. I always assumed that it had more to do with people thinking that you piss off an admin, you get banned but that's not the case.

Seriously, I wouldn't do that unless you REALLY pissed me off :P

I think there was, however, some discussion that took place a few years ago where the idea was "constructive feedback" and I think a lot of it existed when we had people joining up only for the forums. So they'd come on and in the space of a day or two, had racked up 60 posts all saying slightly different variations of "I like it" and "Nice image."

As a result, the shift was made to constructive feedback. But I don't agree with this because if I like an image, I don't want to have to resort to critiquing it like my life depended on it just to say "Nice image."

So go on. Say "Nice image."

Unless you're talking about mine in which you can say "Great image", "Superb image", "That image makes me hyperventilate in awe", or "What a waste of time Leigh." :P
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby Potoroo on Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:13 am

whitey wrote:1. I would like to be able to post a larger image than the current limit.

I would like the nominal file size limit enforced. People tend to forget that 35-40% of Australians are not yet on broadband (for a variety of reasons) and I am one of them. When people are posting multiple images of 350KB+ I simply give up.

I also take Gary's point about the image size. I will sometimes log in on my laptop from uni (where I do have broadband access) but of course my screen is only 15". At 1440x900 an 800p portrait image will nearly fill the screen vertically.

4. Agree we need to get off our own arses and post more feedback in the critique forum.

I admit I have made very few comments. That is partly because I am not posting my own pictures for comment and so I don't feel comfortable criticising other people's work, partly because I am busy at uni and partly because I am deterred from viewing the images in the first place because too many are too large.
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby Reschsmooth on Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:11 am

surenj wrote:While you are at it, I would like the facility to view the posts that haven't got a single response. It is a crime not to respond to someone's image that they posted for critique!! :shock:


I agree. When I have time, I have actively gone searching for image review threads that have had no responses, particularly those with large view counts and particularly those from newer members. It is not to placate them, but they have gone to the effort to show themselves to a new crowd. To get no response, particularly for new members, is almost like saying "you are not welcome". Ok, not really, but it is not welcoming.

I see no problem with people saying they like an image. Sure, it is not constructive, and it would be better if those who say they like it explain why. Is it the composition, DOF, use of light (natural/artificial/blend), PP, etc? It gives other viewers:

1. A better understanding of why they may like the same image. For example, if I see an image that grabs me, I may not be able to put my finger on why. Another member may explain why they like it and I find clarity in my reasons why I like it.
2. It gives instruction to the other view as to some techniques or technicalities that are strong in the image.

It can also give the OP real feedback on a technique they have been trying.

That particularly forum is called "Image Review and Critique" - notwithstanding the preamble, there is no reason why you can't Review the images and provide positive feedback. Therefore, it is not just about critique, in my view.

The 800px issue is relevant because if I have to scroll up/right to view an image in full, I will not get the whole impact.

Anyway, got to run.
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby gstark on Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:44 am

ATJ wrote:It was probably well over a year ago when I brought this up. I remember how I got absolutely jumped on for even suggesting it and that it was all in my head, or I was being precious, or I should be out taking photos rather than complaining.


I cannot recall this; could you please PM me with a link?

I have always maintained precisely the two points that I outlined earlier in this thread - there is no way that we can compel people to critique any image, and that I prefer no comment to be made rather than a slew of "nice image" me too posts.

To elaborate upon that last point, if you think an image is nice/good/whatever, then please, state why you have that opinion. What is it about an image that makes you like it?

Or not?


surenj wrote:
whitey wrote:
Rooz wrote: whats wrong with saying "i like that" and leaving it alone ?

:agree: Sometimes all thats needed in terms of feedback is confirming its a good shot imo.


:agree:
At the end of the day, we want to know whether the shot we post is either good or bad. Personally if I don't get much response, I can't make up my mind. It is great to get lots of comments saying either it's crap or great. At least you get some feedback. If you wanted, you could try and discuss why it's crap or great... If you get nothing, then you get to discuss nothing. You will be left wondering whether anyone actually saw the image... Maybe you'd move on to another community......


Regarding the above comments ...

Of what value is a post that says "I like that", when no further information is provided? Does one like the composition? Lighting? Subject matter? B&W conversion? Let's take the opposite tack, and suggest that we make posts saying "I don't like that", and then leaving it at that.

I see no value in that approach, and especially the latter. It's not critique, and it has, IMHO, zero real value. If you disagree with my opinion, that's fine, but I'd I'd like to hear why you disagree.

biggerry wrote:I think this is a good healthy thread which hopefully will produce some results,


That is the purpose. We need your input. We need this discussion.


Over the last few of months there have been several, in fact. There was a mid-week meeting for the Vivid Sydney stuff, and we also had a couple of restaurant evenings in Newtown and Glebe. There's more of this being planned too.


Quite frankly, people need to make the effort to get there (dont take that as a personal attack on anyone), if someone is going to the effort to organise a meet and 3 people turn up, wheres the incentive for next time.


Excellent point. Sometimes we go to quite a bit of effort to arrange things, but get very little real response. The success of any activity is directly proportional to to the efforts put in by the participants, rather than the organisers.

Dates and times will always be a compromise, and that compromise will always be based upon what works best for the orgainsers. If something doesn't suit you, but you feel that you want to do something, then what's to stop you from organising your own event? Please, if you're considering such a thing, do me the courtesy of letting me know beforehand (so I can tell you if it may clash with something else, so I can put it in the calendar.... ) but otherwise, why not?



I frequent a number of forums, all australian based, however only post in one, DSLRusers, I feel i do not need to spread my seed far and wide and think putting in a decent effort at one location is better than do a half arsed job over seven. There were a couple of resons for choosing this forum as a home, firstly, it was locally based, secondly and probably most key, is that it is clean simple forum without the bullshit of 50 line signatures etc and is very easy to read - important as the years go on :) Additionally there appeared to be a more discerning crowd here (don't ask me what that means, cause I am still trying to work it out myself).



ATJ wrote:
surenj wrote:If you get nothing, then you get to discuss nothing. You will be left wondering whether anyone actually saw the image... Maybe you'd move on to another community......

Which is exactly what I did for critique on my images.



Andrew,

Gerry's comments make a lot of sense to me, and I'm curious about your comments. While I am interested in the "where", I'm more interested in the how ... you say that you've moved on to a different community for critique on your images ... what sort of critique are you receiving, and what sort of community might that be? If you like, please feel free to PM me about this. I appreciate that some of your work - much of it - is of a specialist nature, and I want to understand if what you're doing is related to that specialist stuff - which many here might not fully appreciate - or of a more general nature?

Potoroo wrote:
whitey wrote:1. I would like to be able to post a larger image than the current limit.

I would like the nominal file size limit enforced. People tend to forget that 35-40% of Australians are not yet on broadband (for a variety of reasons) and I am one of them. When people are posting multiple images of 350KB+ I simply give up.

I also take Gary's point about the image size. I will sometimes log in on my laptop from uni (where I do have broadband access) but of course my screen is only 15". At 1440x900 an 800p portrait image will nearly fill the screen vertically.


The screen on my MacBook is a 13" one. If I'm in the radio station, then I'm using a netbook, which is even smaller. I don't like large image file sizes at all, and in all honesty, if you're posting large files, you're possibly putting your own IP in the images at risk. For internet viewing, there is simply no need to post high resolution/high density files.

But as I mentioned earlier, the largest size that the forum software comfortably handles is a nudge under 800px, and that's where the current limit sits. The changes we're looking at may include a change in the forum software, but as yet that's not been decided. Always remember that by embedding a link you can always provide viewers with a means to see a larger version, if that's what you want to do.

But please keep this discussion going ... there have been some very interesting ideas that Leigh and I are discussing further.
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby ATJ on Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:31 pm

gstark wrote:
ATJ wrote:It was probably well over a year ago when I brought this up. I remember how I got absolutely jumped on for even suggesting it and that it was all in my head, or I was being precious, or I should be out taking photos rather than complaining.


I cannot recall this; could you please PM me with a link?

I've done a search at I don't believe that thread exists anymore. I guess it got pruned or well off the end. It may have actually been more than 2 years ago (and I can't find many threads older than 2007).

I did, however, find similar threads from others expressing the same sentiments.
For example: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=25076

gstark wrote:I have always maintained precisely the two points that I outlined earlier in this thread - there is no way that we can compel people to critique any image, and that I prefer no comment to be made rather than a slew of "nice image" me too posts.

To elaborate upon that last point, if you think an image is nice/good/whatever, then please, state why you have that opinion. What is it about an image that makes you like it?

I agree partially. It would be best if you like an image to day why, but for I find that receiving a "nice image" is infinitely (both mathematically and figuratively) is better than no comment at all. At least I know I've done something right - and the image may even be perfect ( ;) I can hope.). With no comment, I have no feedback at all. As it is an Image Review and Critique forum, there's no point in posting if there's no review or critique. It just because a gallery.

I agree, you can't force people to comment, but this is where the community comes in. Everyone has to do there share. When I expected people to review and critique my images I made sure that I was reviewing and critiquing other people's images - not that it made much difference.

gstark wrote:
ATJ wrote:
surenj wrote:If you get nothing, then you get to discuss nothing. You will be left wondering whether anyone actually saw the image... Maybe you'd move on to another community......

Which is exactly what I did for critique on my images.

Andrew,

Gerry's comments make a lot of sense to me, and I'm curious about your comments. While I am interested in the "where", I'm more interested in the how ... you say that you've moved on to a different community for critique on your images ... what sort of critique are you receiving, and what sort of community might that be? If you like, please feel free to PM me about this. I appreciate that some of your work - much of it - is of a specialist nature, and I want to understand if what you're doing is related to that specialist stuff - which many here might not fully appreciate - or of a more general nature?

The "where" is NatureSccapes.net. They specialise in nature photography. There are a number of image critique forums for specific areas: Flora and Macro, Wildlife, Birds, Landscapes, etc. If I post an image there I know I will get great feedback. Yes, some of it is "Excellent image", but most of it is backed up by other words. Some examples (I'd post a link but you have to be a member to view the image critique threads:
Excellent image, nice light and detail - cool patterns on this bug.

excellent detail andrew on this guy's head = success 8)
i love how the eyes stick out from this angle :lol:
and your softbox did you proud with the nice smooth light...

Very nice portrait, Andrew.

There is plenty of detail, great lighting and good DOF. Leafhoppers aren't an easy subject to get all in focus, cause of their odd shape I find.

And that was just the first 3 responses from one image (a macro of a leafhopper).

Now, while this could be considered "specialist" stuff, all photography falls in one category or another. It might be car racing, weddings, portraits, landscapes, etc. All of these are "specialist" categories. Additionally, we have plenty of people on here who take photos of nature and/or macro photography, so my stuff isn't all that different from that of other members of DSLRUsers.
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby ATJ on Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:36 pm

Oh... I found it. :oops:

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=29276
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby Mr Darcy on Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:48 pm

I too would like to see the 800 pixel limit kept. While I run a large monitor and broadband almost exclusively these days, I do remember the pain of a 12" monitor and dial up, and there is always the dubious connection while travelling.

I would like to see a special section for panoramas though. maybe a 800 pixel vertical limit here. Panoramas really don't work within the normal limits. and I personally rarely click through to the larger image unless there is something specific I want to examine.

As for comments on photos, I agree that there has been too little of late. But then I am guilty too.
As for your photos specifically, Andrew, I really feel unqualified to make any comment other than "Wow" or similar, and if there has already been one of these, I feel that such a comment does not add any value. I do miss your photographs here though. They have significantly informed my own work.

One thing I DO hope gets rectified is the very annoying loss of messages because of the Pacific Time thingy. Look at recent posts about 16:00 any day to see the issue It seems to affect "last24Hours" as well as the default. I am sure I miss a lot of posts because of this.
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby aim54x on Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:08 pm

Just wanted to add

Can we get a quick reply box at the end of the thread?

*sorry about the typo...was doing it quickly at camera house where I borrowed the net to check something....not on the forum
Last edited by aim54x on Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby Reschsmooth on Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:12 pm

aim54x wrote:Just wanted to ass


Hehe. You said "ass". :biglaugh:
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby gstark on Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:39 pm

Andrew,

Thanks for taking the time to respond, and for locating the older thread.

ATJ wrote:I've done a search at I don't believe that thread exists anymore. I guess it got pruned or well off the end. It may have actually been more than 2 years ago (and I can't find many threads older than 2007).


Actually, pruning would be most unlikely (as you've already noted). One of the problems with this site is that I rarely prune anything. I believe that destroys the integrity of the database, which in turn would destroy much of the resource base that we have to offer.

gstark wrote:I have always maintained precisely the two points that I outlined earlier in this thread - there is no way that we can compel people to critique any image, and that I prefer no comment to be made rather than a slew of "nice image" me too posts.

To elaborate upon that last point, if you think an image is nice/good/whatever, then please, state why you have that opinion. What is it about an image that makes you like it?

I agree partially. It would be best if you like an image to day why, but for I find that receiving a "nice image" is infinitely (both mathematically and figuratively) is better than no comment at all. At least I know I've done something right - and the image may even be perfect ( ;) I can hope.). With no comment, I have no feedback at all. As it is an Image Review and Critique forum, there's no point in posting if there's no review or critique. It just because a gallery.


Well, not quite. All images posted in that section are always open to critique and comment. Would you wander in to the NSW Art Gallery and write your critique below the images on display? I suspect not. :rotfl2:

The point in posting, therefore, is to seek critique. I wish I knew how to guarantee that critique could be given, but that is something that is beyond my control. Equally, it is rarely ever personal, and I doubt that it should ever be viewed in that light.

Rather, there are many areas of photography that I am simply unqualified to pass judgement on. And further, there may be subject areas that I choose to avoid looking at. I suspect that both of these cases may be true of many members.

How can one comment when one is not comfortable with, say, the subject matter? And in being "uncomfortable with the subject matter" can be a very broad expression: Some people post images of kids or cars; others may find those subjects boring, and thus may feel "uncomfortable".


I agree, you can't force people to comment, but this is where the community comes in. Everyone has to do there share. When I expected people to review and critique my images I made sure that I was reviewing and critiquing other people's images - not that it made much difference.


Without wanting to sound trite or elitist, I might say that that's good: you're doing the right thing. That's not your point though, and I doubt it's mine.

How do we get the others to carry their weight? To do, what you've correctly described, as "their share"?

I would like to think that people come here fully appraised that we like to think of this forum as a community. To my mind, your suggestion is a given within that context, but I can only speak for myself.


The "where" is NatureSccapes.net. They specialise in nature photography. There are a number of image critique forums for specific areas: Flora and Macro, Wildlife, Birds, Landscapes, etc. If I post an image there I know I will get great feedback. Yes, some of it is "Excellent image", but most of it is backed up by other words. Some examples (I'd post a link but you have to be a member to view the image critique threads:
Excellent image, nice light and detail - cool patterns on this bug.

excellent detail andrew on this guy's head = success 8)
i love how the eyes stick out from this angle :lol:
and your softbox did you proud with the nice smooth light...

Very nice portrait, Andrew.

There is plenty of detail, great lighting and good DOF. Leafhoppers aren't an easy subject to get all in focus, cause of their odd shape I find.

And that was just the first 3 responses from one image (a macro of a leafhopper).

Now, while this could be considered "specialist" stuff, all photography falls in one category or another. It might be car racing, weddings, portraits, landscapes, etc. All of these are "specialist" categories.


Absolutely.

And we do have people here who gravitate towards one type/style of photography as distinct from another. How often do we see some of what I might describe as the glamour photography people here shooting macros of a leafhopper, to pull an example out of thin air. :)

How many of our more noted nature photographers post images of weddings or racecars?

While I won't name names, I see a number of photographers posting their images for critique, but rarely if ever do I see them offering critiques upon the images of others. Personally, I find that offensive: they're taking, but they're not giving.

Is there a suggestion that I should do something about that? I'm not hearing that line of thought, but I think it's a question worth asking. Should I look for some sort of means for compensating members (forum credits, for want of a better expression) when they offer critique?

In getting back to the example that you've offered, and with all due respect, what I'm seeing from what you've quoted is little more than a couple of "nice image" posts. Yes, they comment on the lighting, and acknowledge that leafhoppers may be difficult to photograph, etc, but no mention of background, foreground, image elements, cropping, etc ... Without seeing the image, I certainly am not able to offer critique, but what I'm seeing here is more of the feelgood stuff, rather than a solid critique. That could just be my impression though, so please do not read too much into that.

ATJ wrote:Oh... I found it.


Thank you very much for that.

I do not see that thread as you being "jumped on".I do not see that thread as you, or anyone else, being "precious". I do see it as being very much a thread covering much of what we're discussing here, with, not surprisingly, many of the same points of view being expressed. The problems you expressed then are no different to those that you're still expressing today, and I still see no practical solution to the very real problem that you highlight.

But I remain open to suggestions from any quarter as how to try to address the problem of our members failing to offer critique on images posted. Two years ago, that was acknowledged to be a fundamental problem. Today nothing, really, has changed.

I think we're agreed upon as to what the problem is. What we need is the solution.
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby gstark on Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:48 pm

Mr Darcy wrote:I would like to see a special section for panoramas though. maybe a 800 pixel vertical limit here. Panoramas really don't work within the normal limits.


Good point

One thing I DO hope gets rectified is the very annoying loss of messages because of the Pacific Time thingy. Look at recent posts about 16:00 any day to see the issue It seems to affect "last24Hours" as well as the default. I am sure I miss a lot of posts because of this.


Ditto

aim54x wrote:Can we get a quick reply box at the end of the thread?


Ditto ditto.

Given that we're looking at a number of different ideas within the software scenario, these are all good suggestions, but ones that also require changes to be made within the current forum software framework. As there's no guarantee that we'll be staying within that framework, none of these ideas will be looked at within the current context (phpbb3 as we use it today) but I will certainly look at these ideas as we move forward.

Translation: not today, but quite possibly addressed around the time of the AW.


As for your photos specifically, Andrew, I really feel unqualified to make any comment other than "Wow" or similar, and if there has already been one of these, I feel that such a comment does not add any value.


And I think that may sum up the feelings of many others. As stated here, I suspect that the lack of comments has more to do with others, than with the image poster.
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby ATJ on Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:49 pm

gstark wrote:Well, not quite. All images posted in that section are always open to critique and comment. Would you wander in to the NSW Art Gallery and write your critique below the images on display? I suspect not. :rotfl2:

Which was exactly my point. If there is no critique or review, it just becomes a gallery, just like NSW Art Gallery.

gstark wrote:How can one comment when one is not comfortable with, say, the subject matter? And in being "uncomfortable with the subject matter" can be a very broad expression: Some people post images of kids or cars; others may find those subjects boring, and thus may feel "uncomfortable".

I don't expect everyone to comment. While there is a huge array of different subject matter being taken by our members, I haven't seen a single area where there was only one member. There are definitely multiple nature photographers (shoot, we even have at least 2 underwater photographers), there are multiple people photographing cars, sports, weddings, portraits, babies, children, landscapes, cityscapes, ad infinitum.

gstark wrote:Is there a suggestion that I should do something about that? I'm not hearing that line of thought, but I think it's a question worth asking. Should I look for some sort of means for compensating members (forum credits, for want of a better expression) when they offer critique?

That sounds like the (start of) a great idea. I don't know how it could be implemented but something along those lines may be of value. Maybe even an informal system. You raised the issue of people that post images for critique but rarely provide critique themselves. If you've noticed it, I'm sure others have (I know I have), so perhaps we just stop providing comments to those people, while at the same time reminding people the benefit to the community of commenting.

gstark wrote:In getting back to the example that you've offered, and with all due respect, what I'm seeing from what you've quoted is little more than a couple of "nice image" posts. Yes, they comment on the lighting, and acknowledge that leafhoppers may be difficult to photograph, etc, but no mention of background, foreground, image elements, cropping, etc ... Without seeing the image, I certainly am not able to offer critique, but what I'm seeing here is more of the feelgood stuff, rather than a solid critique. That could just be my impression though, so please do not read too much into that.


They were just the first three I picked. There are many others that do go into a lot more detail. In fact, I think my shooting style has improved dramatically just from the feedback I got from that site. My lighting is so much better. I work on my backgrounds and depth of field so much more, again based on the feedback.

Even for those few examples, while they didn't provide suggestions for things that could be improved, they did confirm the things that worked and that they liked about the image. This (to me at least) is important feedback. I need to know what I'm doing right as well as what I'm doing wrong.

gstark wrote:I do not see that thread as you being "jumped on".I do not see that thread as you, or anyone else, being "precious". I do see it as being very much a thread covering much of what we're discussing here, with, not surprisingly, many of the same points of view being expressed. The problems you expressed then are no different to those that you're still expressing today, and I still see no practical solution to the very real problem that you highlight.

A couple of interesting points from that thread... and also the one started by Alan...
a) a lot of people are seeing the issue and are disappointed - which you have highlighted below
b) in my thread at least, when pressed I did get some great and relevant feedback from some people. Useful information for either PP of that image or things to consider next time. So, there are people on the forum that can provide valuable feedback - it isn't a "specialty" area for everyone.

gstark wrote:But I remain open to suggestions from any quarter as how to try to address the problem of our members failing to offer critique on images posted. Two years ago, that was acknowledged to be a fundamental problem. Today nothing, really, has changed.

I think we're agreed upon as to what the problem is. What we need is the solution.

And this is the difficult part. I keep looking back to NatureScapes.net because it seems to work wonderfully, there. In fact, so well that they can have multiple very narrow image critique forums. Perhaps it works so well because the membership is so high they end up with large numbers of "specialists". I don't really know. What I do know is that when I post an image for critique on NSN, I feel compelled to offer critique on other images. That's what we need here.
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby biggerry on Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:23 pm

Should I look for some sort of means for compensating members (forum credits, for want of a better expression) when they offer critique?


Any system that even slightly forces people to critique or post in the anticipation of a reward (any kind) is potentially dangerous imo. I think respect should be the driving factor.

I don't really know. What I do know is that when I post an image for critique on NSN, I feel compelled to offer critique on other images


should that feeling be applicable anywhere? for example I post in engo forums and there is the same culture, you get much more respect and response if you put in responses to other members queries - you get out what you put in (thats not directed at anyone either btw)

I think
I feel compelled
shows that you are respectful of those people and the community.

I know when I post images here I feel compelled to critique and respond to others images, thats where the respect is I think - I know if someone has gone to the trouble of commenting on a picture that I have posted then I will make extra effort to ensure i comment on their photo... I am not terribly clear here :roll: but I hope i get the main concept across, respect should be the driving factor....
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby chrisk on Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:35 pm

gstark wrote:While I won't name names, I see a number of photographers posting their images for critique, but rarely if ever do I see them offering critiques upon the images of others. Personally, I find that offensive: they're taking, but they're not giving.


amen to that.
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby Potoroo on Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:38 pm

gstark wrote:How do others use the various forum pages?

I go directly to the board index and not to the portal. I know which forums I read (Canon but not Nikon, Melbourne but not Sydney, etc) and check those which have new posts.
gstark wrote:
Potoroo wrote:I would like the nominal file size limit enforced. People tend to forget that 35-40% of Australians are not yet on broadband (for a variety of reasons) and I am one of them. When people are posting multiple images of 350KB+ I simply give up.

... I don't like large image file sizes at all, and in all honesty, if you're posting large files, you're possibly putting your own IP in the images at risk. For internet viewing, there is simply no need to post high resolution/high density files.

The FAQ says "Filesizes should be kept minimal too: there is little reason that any image file should exceed about 150K." That guideline is honoured in the breach so often it might as well not be there unless the moderators begin some level of enforcement of it.
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby Mr Darcy on Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:51 pm

The FAQ says "Filesizes should be kept minimal too: there is little reason that any image file should exceed about 150K." That guideline is honoured in the breach so often it might as well not be there unless the moderators begin some level of enforcement of it.

One problem I have with this is that I (and others) usually use NX2 to massage the image to posting standard. This software does not give a review of the SIZE of the file being created. Sometimes I will save, check the file size in explorer, resave etc until I get it about right. More often, I just set it to "good Balance" & hope it will be about the right size. No drama when I use CS3, but I am using that less and less these days. Oh and the last time I checked the FAQ, admittedly a long time ago, the max filesize was 200K so that's what I generally work towards. I didn't realise it had been revised.
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby biggerry on Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:17 pm

The FAQ says "Filesizes should be kept minimal too: there is little reason that any image file should exceed about 150K." That guideline is honoured in the breach so often it might as well not be there unless the moderators begin some level of enforcement of it.


fair call.

One problem I have with this is that I (and others) usually use NX2 to massage the image to posting standard


I suspect I have been a culprit in this also, I rarely check the file size of the pictures before uploading....
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Re: DSLR Version 3.0 - Project Synthesis

Postby aim54x on Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:03 pm

Sorry I am a HUGE culprit of this as I resize and use the images for my website as well...this means my pics are in the 500+kb level most of the time.
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