Hands On: Samsung NX10 EVIL

[aim54x]

I know that people have not been keenly awaiting the appearance of the Samsung EVIL, but I have been interested by it since photohiker brought it to my attention.

Today I was lucky enough to handle a pre-production model briefly and was pretty impressed by it. In the hands it was comfortable and had a nice solid feel to it, but at the same time it was quite small and compact. The 18-55mm OIS and the 30mm f/2 are both well built and appear to be decent quality, although I cannot say that i had the chance to throughly test them. I also got to play with the K-mount adaptor with the 10-17mm fisheye (same as my Tokina 10-17), this adaptor has a aperture ring that helps maximise compatibility.

I am happy to say that my interest in this camera has actually increased now that I have handled one. It did not dissappoint although 800 ISO could be cleaner. Packing an 14MP APS-C CMOS and the ability to shoot 720P HD Video at 30fps in 25 min clips, this camera is quite formidable in spec. On the back there is a high resolution (621K dot) 3" AMOLED which looks great and helps squeeze more efficiency out of the battery. The EVF is bright and sharp, probably the best I have seen and the focus is snappy enough although not quite as good as a DSLR.

Samsung looks to have delivered a camera that is worth looking at. I cant wait to see if I can get one to play with in the future.

[photomarcs]

The only thing I'll have to say when i played with it when that guy came though... grip. The right side neck strap is right where your index finger is supposed to be.(well in my opinion) it forced me to hold it from under that hooking place, which was really uncomfortable.. but all in all.. great camera for a sub 1K retail kit. I'd say samsung are really hitting the market hard with this one.

the other thing was the rear screen, the guy blamed it on pre production model, but as a pre-prod, shouldn't it have all the features of the production one? the rear screen had a column that was constantly flick.. quite large.. about a 1cm thick column.. but hey.. could this just be pre production so close to release date?


Anyways, great camera as it is, great idea for the APS-C to go into such a mint body. Samsung have done really well the past few months =D

[Rooz]

samsung have their own lens mount right ?
that kills it right there for me.

[photohiker]

I hope Gary doesn't notice you guys discussing this heathen camera after the stoush we had last year over it.

Rooz, I'd be surprised if there weren't adapters to take other mount lenses in due course, as you might expect there would be exorbitant licence fees payable to officially adopt another camera makers mount as native.

Michael

[photohiker]

Here is one mount manufacturer's entry, courtesy of dpreview news

PMA 2010: Novoflex has unveiled a series of mount adapters for Samsung's NX mirrorless cameras. The German manufacturer is showing nine adapters to various lens mounts, including Sony Alpha, Pentax K, Olympus OM and Leica R. There is also a Nikon F mount adapter featuring the aperture control ring the company includes on its Micro Four Thirds to Nikon F adapter. So far there are no details on price or availability.

Adapaters will be available for the following lenses:

* Nikon F
* Canon FD
* Minolta MD
* Minolta/Sony Alpha
* Leica R
* Pentax K
* Olympus OM
* M42
* T2

[edit] Mount to film plane specifications - most mounts are possible as the NX is quite short at 25.5mm. Of course, you lose auto lens functionality...

Michael

[aim54x]

I hope Gary doesn't notice you guys discussing this heathen camera after the stoush we had last year over it.

Rooz, I'd be surprised if there weren't adapters to take other mount lenses in due course, as you might expect there would be exorbitant licence fees payable to officially adopt another camera makers mount as native.

Michael

So far there are no details on price or availability.

I dont know if Gary will mind if we are discussing this camera, he may like it when he sees it. It is so close to m4/3rds size but with a full APS-C sensor!

As for those adaptors....I was told the Samsung NX to K-mount is expected to be under $100, and the Novoflex is roughly twice that.

[gstark]

I dont know if Gary will mind if we are discussing this camera, he may like it when he sees it. It is so close to m4/3rds size but with a full APS-C sensor!

You're quite correct. I might like it.

I do keep an open mind on these things, and make my assessment when I get a hands-on play.

That said, my earlier comments still apply, and as much as I respect Samsung as a manufacturer, I really don't see this as being a great product.

Moving off-topic for a moment, for those who listened to last Sunday's Gadget Grill, we had a hands-on of the new Ricoh, with the lens-sensor. For those who aren't aware, this camera presents as a body with no sensor. Each lens has a sensor attached, and that slides onto the body. An electronic viewfinder mounts at the top of the camera. Lens quality and internal B&W processing engine were very good. Macro AF on the 50 was very poor, and the pricing regime is unrealistic, to put it very kindly.

As with the Samsng, I think this is a solution for which there was never a problem.

[aim54x]

I do keep an open mind on these things, and make my assessment when I get a hands-on play.

That said, my earlier comments still apply, and as much as I respect Samsung as a manufacturer, I really don't see this as being a great product.

Isnt that a bit prejudice there Gary??

we had a hands-on of the new Ricoh, with the lens-sensor. For those who aren't aware, this camera presents as a body with no sensor. Each lens has a sensor attached, and that slides onto the body. An electronic viewfinder mounts at the top of the camera. Lens quality and internal B&W processing engine were very good. Macro AF on the 50 was very poor, and the pricing regime is unrealistic, to put it very kindly.

My chat with the Tasco rep on this topic was interesting. He was very enthusiastic about it, I am a bit skeptical about differing sensor sizes for different lenses. How many diff lens(+sensor) units did you play with? What sort of pricing is it for this system? I dont think the 50mm (which has an APS-C sensor from memory) is meant to be a macro, I think your expected to buy the macro lens+sensor......

As with the Samsng, I think this is a solution for which there was never a problem.

That depends on the problem that you see these cameras being a solution for....
-the Samsung addresses the same issue as the m4/3rds the need for a small camera that that has DSLR performance.
-the Ricoh? I am not convinced it is the same problem being addressed, although the rep I spoke to seems to think differently, the whole different sensor size bugs me. I do hope to get a hands on with a kit, then I can test its mettle.

[gstark]

I do keep an open mind on these things, and make my assessment when I get a hands-on play.

That said, my earlier comments still apply, and as much as I respect Samsung as a manufacturer, I really don't see this as being a great product.

Isnt that a bit prejudice there Gary??

Cameron, everyone has their prejudices, but no. The job is there for Samsung to produce a worthy product, and convince me of its worthiness.

we had a hands-on of the new Ricoh, with the lens-sensor. For those who aren't aware, this camera presents as a body with no sensor. Each lens has a sensor attached, and that slides onto the body. An electronic viewfinder mounts at the top of the camera. Lens quality and internal B&W processing engine were very good. Macro AF on the 50 was very poor, and the pricing regime is unrealistic, to put it very kindly.

My chat with the Tasco rep on this topic was interesting. He was very enthusiastic about it, I am a bit skeptical about differing sensor sizes for different lenses. How many diff lens(+sensor) units did you play with? What sort of pricing is it for this system? I dont think the 50mm (which has an APS-C sensor from memory) is meant to be a macro, I think your expected to buy the macro lens+sensor......

I just had a play with one lens, and it was designated as a macro. The AF at normal distances was ok to good, but at macro distance - my Mac keyboard at 3", for instance, you could see it go right past the focus point. Twice. Without noticing that it had acquired focus. Twice. And lost it. Twice.

As with the Samsng, I think this is a solution for which there was never a problem.

That depends on the problem that you see these cameras being a solution for....
-the Samsung addresses the same issue as the m4/3rds the need for a small camera that that has DSLR performance.

Ok, I'll play.

Does it have DSLR performance? What is viewfinder performance like? How well can it be seen in bright conditions where there's lots of glare? That's where the Olympus Pen fails.

For a small camera with DSLR performance, I'd probably be inclined to look at .... the D3000, which just happens to be a small dslr camera with dslr performance.

-the Ricoh? I am not convinced it is the same problem being addressed, although the rep I spoke to seems to think differently, the whole different sensor size bugs me. I do hope to get a hands on with a kit, then I can test its mettle.

Well, this is definitely a solution, of sorts. I'm buggered if I can identify the problem though. Perhaps your rep might have an answer? (beyond the spin)

Pricing of the Ricoh is not all that good either. Body price - remember, with no sensor - was around PP900. The complete package - body, lens and viewfinder (which is digital) - was over PP2K.

For which there's lots of other options.

[photohiker]

I just had a play with one lens, and it was designated as a macro. The AF at normal distances was ok to good, but at macro distance - my Mac keyboard at 3", for instance, you could see it go right past the focus point. Twice. Without noticing that it had acquired focus. Twice. And lost it. Twice.

Hmm. Do many people use autofocus at macro range? I certainly haven't - the lens would need thought control for that to work given the shallow dof. Manual focus handling and image quality would be subjects of interest though.

Michael

[gstark]

Hmm. Do many people use autofocus at macro range?

Given what I think the target market for this camera is, I would say probably. This is by no means aimed at the pro or advanced user.

Manual focus was ..... bleah! No feel, no feedback, no physical resistance. You just turned a ring and if the image didn't come into focus .... you turned it in the opposite direction.

As I mentioned above, IQ was not too bad, but I didn't push it at all.

[Rooz]

i want the love child of a pen2+GF1.

[photohiker]

i want the love child of a pen2+GF1.

So, something with a decent EVF, in body IS, fast focussing, usable interface, and in body toy flash?

I'm almost the same, I just want the same, in the same EPx/GF1 size but with the EVF in the camera body, not an add-on.

I doubt either of us will have to wait very long.

Michael

[Rooz]

i want the love child of a pen2+GF1.

So, something with a decent EVF, in body IS, fast focussing, usable interface, and in body toy flash?

I'm almost the same, I just want the same, in the same EPx/GF1 size but with the EVF in the camera body, not an add-on.

I doubt either of us will have to wait very long.

Michael

the in body flash is great for me. i know alot of people put shit on PUF but during the day used well, you can save alot of shots by using it as some fill. i've used the piddley little lx3 flash for exactly that sort of thing.

the GF1 is almost my ideal camera. its small, great screen and the AF seems very good. i;d like full HD video and in body IS and i'm golden. keeping in mind that for me, this is not a primary camera. its a high quality take-anywhere and pocketable. which is why this samsung to me has me scratching me head. its not small enuf to be a pcoekt camera and not good enuf to be your real one...so i dont quite understand the interest for my purposes.

heres a great little comparison.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c0AQJMChjk

[aim54x]

Gary I stand corrected, that 50mm Ricoh is a macro module.....that price is a joke, I agree

But as for the Samsung....the EVF is definitely usable in bright sunlight (it could be bigger, but then again that would mean a bigger body) and AMOLED screens are already showing that they performs better than LCD screens on phones, so it cannot be worse than any other screen on a camera, obviously I cannot confirm this on the NX10 as I have not been able to play with a unit outside in bright sunlight.

Does it have DSLR performance....at higher ISOs from what I saw it would have to be on par with the Pentax K7 although still a bit noisy compared to a D90/D300. AF speed, the 30mm does not feel sluggish, but at the same time not pro grade AF-S/USM speed. Does this qualify as DSLR performance? Do any of the m4/3rds deliver on par performance? I would say this is on par with an EP-1/GF-1 (from what i have seen on those units) in terms of IQ.

For a small camera with DSLR performance, I'd probably be inclined to look at .... the D3000, which just happens to be a small dslr camera with dslr performance.

The D3000 + 35mm DX is a great combination. But at the same time, so is the E420 with the 25mm pancake, both small DSLRs with DSLR performance. I would happily take either (I prefer an optical viewfinder over an electronic viewfinder), but I wont rule out the NX10 as not having DSLR performance until I have seen a head to head.

The fact is that the NX10 houses a APS-C sensor in a body that is slightly smaller than the G1/GH1 is pretty impressive. If they decide to make a camera in the EP-1/GF-1 form factor they will challenge the size again, but it will have to be a bit thicker. More critically, the NX format lenses are a lot smaller than even DX lenses, although larger than m4/3rds (mind you the 30mm NX is smaller than Panasonics 20mm). To add is the fact that this camera is looking to start with a rrp that is significantly lower than the m4/3rds have (other than the EP-L) - $849 with 18-55 OIS, $899 with 30mm f/2 and a cheaper kit with a non IS 18-55 on the way as well.

Yes I want more performance (hell I want more performance out of my D300), yes 1920x1280 HD would be nice, but this is getting closer to the large sensor compact that some of us want. This end of the market is hotting up....now lets see if we get more!

[photomarcs]

As with the Samsng, I think this is a solution for which there was never a problem.

That is the best answer to the problem that doesn't exist. LOL

It's a great idea, but I'm also wondering if companies are going to shoot themselves in the foot with this one. From a business perspective rather than photogenic side of it.

Annnnnyways... we await that Sony already have their puppy on the way too. So we shall see how well they perform on the market. Put simply though, sales will never be as comparable to DSLRs and Compacts, they'll probably end up like micro 4 thirds in my opinion.. they fit the bill.

In terms of the camera itself, I like it =D but.. that doesn't mean i want it. LOL