DSLRUsers.com

Critique would be awesome guys. I was Assistant Photographer for Barry (fellow member here). Wonderful wedding and great people!!

These are my take. Just a slightly different take on the norm.


Cheers
dan

First pic looks like it is back focus

I like the 3rd and 4th pics.

Nice shots Dan. I especially like the B/W treatment on #4.

Barry

3rd and 4th are my favourites here, the 3rd has what appears great eye contact with the bride..
With the 4th I'd try a portrait crop of just the bridemaid in focus.

Number 4 work with the unposed shot - and the funny faces thinking about the speech!

Number 1 seems wrong to me. As mentioned there's a focus issue - my thought is that you've focussed on the bit of tree root between the guy's heads. The shot also seems a bit cool to me - maybe a WB issue? Of course it could also be my uncalibrated monitor

I like the look from the bride in No3 - classic.

Hi Dan,

The last, B&W is nice. The first one does not really work for me and it seems that both background and foreground are out of focus. No. 2 is quite good, but I don't think it works as a high key, rather looks overexposed half a stop. The next one (No.3) has a blue tint, may be warm up the WB a bit. Plus too much shade on the groom's face. But the last one is the winner - facial expressions are priceless.

Alex

4 more, the 1st one in my previous post doesnt have a focus issue, its a terrible bad conversion to jpeg (not sute why). Its crystal clear on my moniter in full Jpeg. Any how



Cheers
dan

real mixed bag again Dan

#1 - what's going on in this shot? Looking at the girl on the left's necklace makes me think that you've manually focussed a couple of inches in front of the girl on the left and are using very shallow DOF which kills the shot. The shot would probably have survived better if they were both the same distance from your camera - easy to say after the fact.

#2 Awesome - these shots work a lot better for you

#3 The high key works quite well here (I'm not a fan of the style) although her smile gets blown out a bit.

#4 Not sure on this. My thought is that perhaps you needed a crop of the lady looking up (on the left of your frame) and the man looking down (on the right of the frame) with a bit more of his head. The OOF head on the left does nothing for the shot and distracts from a possible story between the 2 visible faces.

Hi Dan,

For the new ones: No. 1 is too soft for my liking. In fact, it looks completely OOF.
No. 3 nice and creative high key shot, but again to soft for my liking, I would like to see at least the eyes in sharp focus.

No. 4 doesn't work for me.

Now no. 2 is great. Very well posed and composed, but would benefit from a bit more contrast in my opinion.

Great effort.

Alex

Dan,

I like this very much. It's a quiet shot that bears the same contemplation as the subject seems to be partaking of. It's different, initially, perhaps, prompting a person to think of the things you might expect (eg. eye contact, a more frontal perspective, and so on). It feels like one of those shots that make you think "Well that shouldn't work", but the rotten thing goes and messes up your expectations and works anyway! (Incidentally, I had a muck around, and for me it improved with a tad more brightness, a tad less contrast, and a tad more saturation...of course, messing with these variables to greater and/or opposite degree may produce better results, but, I'm not doing your bloody work for you! ).

Really nice. If I was a bride (and that isn't gonna happen without some rather severe surgery), I think I'd like this shot very much.

(BTW, I'm just focussing on the shot I like most, not defocussing on any you might think I don't ).

Cheers,
MarcL

Dan,

In the second set of shots #1 is too soft for me but contrary to what I said to you before I like the high key shot of Karen.

Barry

Well i added all the Blur to all the photos, maybe i should back off a little, thats why i posted them, thanks guys!!

bonou2 wrote:Well i added all the Blur to all the photos, maybe i should back off a little, thats why i posted them, thanks guys!!

Can I ask how you blurred them (there's "blur", and there's layered blur, so I'm just curious)?

Cheers,
MarcL

Sorry, when i say blur, i meant "soft focus" plugins etc.......i do tend to over do it sometimes, any advice from you "Real" Pros about how to play the game, ie mixtures of cre8tive shots and standered etc?

Also WB, now i like nice wrarm images, is that ok? I have seen plenty of examples from other wedding photographers work. I think for instance Incandesant WB looked to cold, so i went with a preset WB and on my D70s Flash WB +3. Any ideas?

What do you guys shoot for the functions in low light etc?
Dan

bonou2 wrote:Sorry, when i say blur, i meant "soft focus" plugins etc.......i do tend to over do it sometimes, any advice from you "Real" Pros about how to play the game, ie mixtures of cre8tive shots and standered etc?

Dan

If you want a "real pro", well I can't help you - I'm an enthusastic, educated, amateur (what I am saying is, I have too much gear and no where near enough the talent of those folks ).

The only blur I do along the lines you say is to create another layer in Photoshop as a copy of the background layer, then blur that with Gaussian blue to a greater or lesser degree - you can blur details right away though - and then adjust the transparency between both layers to that desirable comination of soft light and clear details. It sounds like I'm probably doing in a ham-handed manual form what your plugin probably does in a more seemless and clearly adjustable manner.

In other words - don't ask me (but, of course, you didn't ).

Cheers,
MarcL

Its funny about this game, once someone asks for help....nothing. Never known such a selfish profession such as photography. Anyone ever wants to ask for my advice, no worries, i am always wiliing to help!!

I can not understand it personaly!

Dan

Oh, I don't know Dan. I'm very new to this website, and I've heard very good things about it from people I trust. I've also found mailing lists where folks are only to keen to help, professionals, experienced and skilled amateurs, everybody. I find that often the "pros" are spare on the ground, but that's usually because they are so busy doing what they do for a living, and for a love, that it's hard for them to find time to share, to their extensive degree and to the thorough degree their experience demands and to their own satisfaction, the knowledge they have. I've never found a pro that wasn't happy to share though if they get the chance though - they want to share the same love that brought them to what they do.

Give things a chance, okay. Help is like this everywhere - it sometimes takes time for someone to find satisfactory opportunity to offer it, as much as the majority desire to. It'll come. I wish I could with your specific questions, but, like I say "enthusastic amateur", not much skill... ).

Cheers,
MarcL

bonou2 wrote:Its funny about this game, once someone asks for help....nothing. Never known such a selfish profession such as photography. Anyone ever wants to ask for my advice, no worries, i am always wiliing to help!!

I can not understand it personaly!

Dan

I certainly haven't found my to be my experience here, if anything the opposite, everyone has gone out of their way to help my improve my skills, answer any of my questions, and offer to lend equipment or their assistance. Perhaps it's different outside this community but I can only comment about my experience here.

Dan,

bonou2 wrote:Its funny about this game, once someone asks for help....nothing. Never known such a selfish profession such as photography. Anyone ever wants to ask for my advice, no worries, i am always wiliing to help!!

I can not understand it personaly!

Dan

I can't really understand your point.

You started this thread about three hours ago, on a Sunday afternoon, and, if I'm reading you correctly, although this thread is now into its second page, you're complaining that nobody is responding to you?

I'm not entirely sure that I see an absence of responses in a thread that's extending ell into its second page.

That said, a couple of points if I may.

1: It's Sunday. People like to spend time with their families.

2: You' seem to be somewhat impatient. Give people a bit more than a couple of hours to respond. Sometimes it may take a day or three. What's the hurry?

3: This is not a professional forum, although we have a large number of members who are, or have been, professionals. But in the main, perhaps they're enjoying their Sunday evening. With their families, perhaps. See #1.

4: Following from point 3, if you want advice from professonals only, you should probably seek such a forum.

5: The general concensus of members, that I've seen, is that the membership here is very giving, and very helpful. Often people get responses to their quesations in just a few minutes. But often it may take a few days. It depends, and there are never any guarantees.

Now that I have that out of the way, as a person who has photographed more weddings than I can count, let me say that you need to concentrate on the basics.

If you cannot do that, then nothing else, really, matters.

There are several images that you've presented here that seem to have serious focus issues; others have commented on this, and you have defended this by saying that you did this in PP. OK, I accept that you did this in PP, but to what end?

I can accept that a soft focus photo may be what you wantedm, but there's a significant difference between soft focus, and out of focus.

Again, is high key truly your goal? I actially like the former high key presentation - it's different, perhaps a tad complex, but I think it works. Nice composition, and the overly bright flowers with the pensive bride is quite nice.

But the overexposed, out of focus bride, in the second group, leaves me gasping for breath:I see little of merit in this image. Again, I'm seeing that none of the basics are addressed, and that disturbs me.

Greatly.

Most of your images display a tendancy, from what I'vce seen, for you to play - seriously - in PP.

My respectful suggestion to you is stop. Don't do it.

KISS!

Focus on getting the basics. Show us that you can make a photo first, and then, and only then - when you can consistantly produce and display correctly focussed, correctly exposed, and creatively composed images - then start thinking about applying these effects in PP.

bonou2 wrote:What do you guys shoot for the functions in low light etc?

Normally I just use Auto WB, but I shoot in RAW anyway so I can fiddle with it later if need be. I usually start around 1/60 ISO400 f/5.6 and SB800 backed off 0.7 EV, then adjust from there.

gstark wrote:Dan,

bonou2 wrote:Its funny about this game, once someone asks for help....nothing. Never known such a selfish profession such as photography. Anyone ever wants to ask for my advice, no worries, i am always wiliing to help!!

I can not understand it personaly!

Dan

I can't really understand your point.

You started this thread about three hours ago, on a Sunday afternoon, and, if I'm reading you correctly, although this thread is now into its second page, you're complaining that nobody is responding to you?

I'm not entirely sure that I see an absence of responses in a thread that's extending ell into its second page.

That said, a couple of points if I may.

1: It's Sunday. People like to spend time with their families.

2: You' seem to be somewhat impatient. Give people a bit more than a couple of hours to respond. Sometimes it may take a day or three. What's the hurry?

3: This is not a professional forum, although we have a large number of members who are, or have been, professionals. But in the main, perhaps they're enjoying their Sunday evening. With their families, perhaps. See #1.

4: Following from point 3, if you want advice from professonals only, you should probably seek such a forum.

5: The general concensus of members, that I've seen, is that the membership here is very giving, and very helpful. Often people get responses to their quesations in just a few minutes. But often it may take a few days. It depends, and there are never any guarantees.

Now that I have that out of the way, as a person who has photographed more weddings than I can count, let me say that you need to concentrate on the basics.

If you cannot do that, then nothing else, really, matters.

There are several images that you've presented here that seem to have serious focus issues; others have commented on this, and you have defended this by saying that you did this in PP. OK, I accept that you did this in PP, but to what end?

I can accept that a soft focus photo may be what you wantedm, but there's a significant difference between soft focus, and out of focus.

Again, is high key truly your goal? I actially like the former high key presentation - it's different, perhaps a tad complex, but I think it works. Nice composition, and the overly bright flowers with the pensive bride is quite nice.

But the overexposed, out of focus bride, in the second group, leaves me gasping for breath:I see little of merit in this image. Again, I'm seeing that none of the basics are addressed, and that disturbs me.

Greatly.

Most of your images display a tendancy, from what I'vce seen, for you to play - seriously - in PP.

My respectful suggestion to you is stop. Don't do it.

KISS!

Focus on getting the basics. Show us that you can make a photo first, and then, and only then - when you can consistantly produce and display correctly focussed, correctly exposed, and creatively composed images - then start thinking about applying these effects in PP.

Where the hell did i complain that no one responded to my post. You’re long winded reply just backs my view up. Did i say people in THIS forum did not help with my questions? I was more or less directing it at other forums. And sorry i don’t buy your "Sunday" family thing, my website for example has a huge jump in visits Sunday evening??

As for the Photographer helping another photographer i have yet to have a response or positive comment, i posted weeks ago willing to help out for a photographer (bar the awesome Barry) not one reply to the post? I have been to numerous photography shops offering my help to garner experience, again nothing? Now either my stuff is Crap, (which i am quite willing to accept) or it’s a case of "protecting what you have and not expanding on it for fear of doing yourself out of business). So go it alone i will, i will get there, by the way, how many people have responded to my WB question, NONE? (As i type this). This is just my personal experience, take it or leave it. But it IS an undeniably selfish industry, sorry - FACT, i have had enough "on the ground" experience to know! As for your "advise" seriously stick it!! It bleeds of self importance! You shoot your way I’ll shoot mine. Granted i have MUCH to learn about Wedding Photography, but be damned if i need you to bag the hell out of my photography in general. EACH to their OWN!!

Dan PS: First and LAST time i post Wedding photos here!!

PPS: Ohh and MODS please change the tittle thread taking the word PRO out as Gary has affirmed i obviously am not a PRO!!! Bad choice of words!

The more i read the dribble above the more pissed off i get!! Remeber "all mighty Gary" i did say it was my FISRT, and i went out to help a fellow forum member????? TO LEARN!!! Christ!!

Sorry Dan - but your previous post (to which Gary was responding) did sound like you were criticising this forum. Given that, I don't see anything Gary has said as being unjustified. Granted, he may have been a bit gruf, but that's just him.

As for replies to any given thread, keep in mind the number of posts made here on a daily basis. It is very easy for something to get lost in amongst all of those posts! Don't take it personally, and feel free to politely 'bump' a question if you feel you haven't received adequate answer.

As to you not liking comments about your images, I think you need to get a thicker skin! The suggestions so far in this thread have mostly been very good suggestions. If you choose not to accept that advice, or have a differing view, then that's fine. Don't get shitty when people post something you don't like! There is a clear disclaimer on the Image Critique section stating you need to have a thick skin.

I hope you don't see this as an attack on you, but you really need to chill out mate!

sheepie wrote:Sorry Dan - but your previous post (to which Gary was responding) did sound like you were criticising this forum. Given that, I don't see anything Gary has said as being unjustified. Granted, he may have been a bit gruf, but that's just him.

As for replies to any given thread, keep in mind the number of posts made here on a daily basis. It is very easy for something to get lost in amongst all of those posts! Don't take it personally, and feel free to politely 'bump' a question if you feel you haven't received adequate answer.

As to you not liking comments about your images, I think you need to get a thicker skin! The suggestions so far in this thread have mostly been very good suggestions. If you choose not to accept that advice, or have a differing view, then that's fine. Don't get shitty when people post something you don't like! There is a clear disclaimer on the Image Critique section stating you need to have a thick skin.

I hope you don't see this as an attack on you, but you really need to chill out mate!

Ohh i have thick skin, i post on flikr all the time and get smashed for some of my photos, but that last post was outrageous!!

Dan

bonou2 wrote:Where the hell did i complain that no one responded to my post. You’re long winded reply just backs my view up.

With respect, you left it pretty blank.

Your wording came out as if you were annoyed at someone, but you were unwilling to say what.

Did i say people in THIS forum did not help with my questions? I was more or less directing it at other forums.

You can say those forum names here. I'm sorry, but I can see how one might get a little confused at an expression of frustration.

And sorry i don’t buy your "Sunday" family thing, my website for example has a huge jump in visits Sunday evening??

You don't have to. It's true. We don't get as large a number on our Sunday nights as we do on our weeknights. Your website having a huge jump in site visits has nothing in common with ours.

As for the Photographer helping another photographer i have yet to have a response or positive comment, i posted weeks ago willing to help out for a photographer (bar the awesome Barry) not one reply to the post?

So you got one reply... great. Assistants aren't something every photographer wants or needs.

I have been to numerous photography shops offering my help to garner experience, again nothing?

Look, if you want to do assisting, join an assisting agency or find a pro that needs one.
Visiting shops or asking photographers isn't always going to net you one.

Likewise, if you want to gain more experience shooting, go out on a mini-meet or call a micro-meet.

Now either my stuff is Crap, (which i am quite willing to accept) or it’s a case of "protecting what you have and not expanding on it for fear of doing yourself out of business).

Or there's Option C: no one needs an assistant.

I happen to think that your stuff isn't all that good. I find that the bulk of your compositions leave little to be desired, your PP work is severely lacking, and yes your plugin use is one where you go over-the-top and don't stop when you probably should.

That's just me.

That said, you are inexperienced and that's fine. You'll get better.

But it IS an undeniably selfish industry, sorry - FACT, i have had enough "on the ground" experience to know!

Yes. It is. Incredibly. Ridiculously.

Still, no one responding to your query asking if you can assist photoshoots does not mean that people here are selfish. They may not need an assistant.

The problem with assisting is an obligation to feel you have to help or show the assistant how to do things as they learn.

Also, if someone is a studio shooter and they have their own studio for product shots, why would they need an assistant?

I understand your frustration. Really, I do. I spent 3-4 years getting a degree in this field and I know more than most people how much bullshit it entails.

But seriously, venting frustrations over something so minute won't make you feel a lot better.

As for your "advise" seriously stick it!! It bleeds of self importance! You shoot your way I’ll shoot mine.

And you'll fail as such.

While I won't deny that my Dad can have that feeling of arrogance hovering around with him, he has been doing photography longer than most people would probably otherwise give him credit for.

Part of photography -- like everything else -- is always learning.
You're always re-evaluating shots and styles and gear and ways of looking through the viewfinder. And let's not go into post-processing, because that field is constantly changing for every bloody thing you do.

Granted i have MUCH to learn about Wedding Photography, but be damned if i need you to bag the hell out of my photography in general. EACH to their OWN!!

And that's exactly it.
Each to their own.

I wouldn't say he's bagged your photography. I'd say he's criticised it.
If you have a problem with someone giving your images negative comments then don't post them.

Critiques aren't always positive in nature.
In fact, I'd be willing to say that the best comments are those which are critical, analytical, and sometimes quite negative.
They tell you that you need to change something you're doing.

However, I'm a photographer. I don't need an assistant.
But there's an event which I'm becoming pretty synonymous with for doing coming up this week. I'm about to send you a PM about it. If you want to come, I'm more than happy to help you out anyway I can.

The more i read the dribble above the more pissed off i get!!

So stop reading dribble and start reading things that can help you. Theory, history, looking at others photography. Do something other than whine.

Get out and take some pictures.

sheepie wrote:Sorry Dan - but your previous post (to which Gary was responding) did sound like you were criticising this forum. Given that, I don't see anything Gary has said as being unjustified. Granted, he may have been a bit gruf, but that's just him.

As for replies to any given thread, keep in mind the number of posts made here on a daily basis. It is very easy for something to get lost in amongst all of those posts! Don't take it personally, and feel free to politely 'bump' a question if you feel you haven't received adequate answer.

As to you not liking comments about your images, I think you need to get a thicker skin! The suggestions so far in this thread have mostly been very good suggestions. If you choose not to accept that advice, or have a differing view, then that's fine. Don't get shitty when people post something you don't like! There is a clear disclaimer on the Image Critique section stating you need to have a thick skin.

I hope you don't see this as an attack on you, but you really need to chill out mate!

Agree, agree, and agree some more.

You did ask for a critique and that is what Gary gave you. You have to accept that, good or bad. But he is dead right about keeping it simple. Focus on your photography strengths and improve from that – you will only get better with more time and practice.

Dan

May I respectfully suggest that you follow Sheepie's advice and "chill" for a while?

I'm not knocking you - please don't take it that way - but I'm a little astounded that you feel you have not had help from this forum, and may I suggest that you give it another chance?

I speak from my own experience - I have been BLOWN AWAY by the amazing generosity and kindness, encouragement and endless patience from the members of this forum. I don't know if you classify yourself as "sensitive to criticism" but if you do - welcome! I also am, but through this forum, am learning and growing in my skills, but also in friendship with members of this forum. I think if you give it another go, you will find that you won't find (if that makes sense ) a more encouraging and accepting group of people anywhere. All you have to do is put yourself out there with a degree of humility (again, don't take that comment personally - I'm not knocking you, just talking about my own experience) and you will find endless offers of help and encouragement. Just have a look at some of the posts. Someone gets published? Accolades aplenty from other Forumites. Someone going through a hard time? Encouragement aplenty likewise. If you let it, this can very much become like a "family", like it has to many of us.

I'm sure noone meant to make you feel bad about your posts or your images. I'm also just getting into wedding photography and when I joined, didn't know diddly squat about digital shooting so I have asked EVERY dumb question imaginable (and I bet some sod will verify that here! ) but I don't feel worse for it. I guess I'm just trying to encourage you - don't give up on the forum or the people here. You get out of it what you put in, and there are many many many people here who are very much worth the time and effort to get to know and spend time with, not only in terms of knowledge and skills, but purely friendship also.

I hope you understand my drift. Please stay, learn and continue to contribute your images. I loved several of yours and would love to see what more you can submit in time.

Good luck with it all.

Nikkofan

Dan,

I think, when you've calmed down a bit, you should re-read the responses you've received here then have another good look at your work. I think you'll find some well-meaning advice that actually has some merit and your application of that advice will help improve your photography, your PP and, as I'm a big believer in kharma, your chances of getting ahead in this business.

Apart from the others who took the time to respond to you in good faith, Gary and Leigh have, through the thought and length of their posts, shown themselves to be very patient and willing to lend you a helping hand. If you haven't already done so, I suggest you take a solid grip of the olive branch that Leigh has offered you and we will all look forward to to seeing your images, wedding shots or otherwise, in the future.

bonou2
I have just logged in and seen your wedding pics and read the responses. My advice to you if you are serious about weddings is to stop using weddings to attempt to be creative or arty. While you are doing that the real wedding pics are getting away. The black and white image you posted is good but the others fail and would have no place in a professional portfolio. Weddings are about people...not about you and your interpretation of what those people are doing. If you use all of your skill and talent on trying to catch the moments....and if you get the technical aspects spot on....then you will end up with an album full of beautiful wedding images. When you master this skill then the art will create itself.
I hope this makes sense to you and you can see the value of what I am saying. We all started out as beginners and had to learn the hard way. If you follow my advice you will save 6 years of hit and miss wedding imagery. Gary gave you essentially the same advice so that's 2 pros who took the time and trouble. Keep at it and keep posting.

Nnnnsic wrote:...

Hmmmm whats that saying "the apple never falls far from the tree". Well thanks for your attack as well. Nail in the coffin for me. Now i can see why another site was started elsewhere. What a bunch of lovely people you two are. Well you won’t have to look at my photos anymore i will spare you the inconvenience and sight for soreness on your obviously perfectly composed eyes! I wont be posting here anymore!! I will lurk and learn, but keep my crappy images to myself!!

bonou2 wrote:Where the hell did i complain that no one responded to my post.

Probably your post within the context of this thread, Dan. That's how I, and perhaps many, would take it. You were getting replies, and then making comments about lack of help. Hell, even I feared an underappreciation of my (admittedly not-much-use) comments (though I note your "Thanks" on the previous page, so I can also assume I was included if I want to be less insecure ).

You’re long winded reply just backs my view up.

No, I think your "long-winded response" to his detailed reply backs him up a fair whack. He's attempted to explain what seems to be a question regarding underhelpfulness that occured withing this thread, and offered some valuable, experienced criticism, as you asked.

Did i say people in THIS forum did not help with my questions?

As mentioned, context is everything. Yes, in effect, between the lines, you said that to many, even though you didn't "say" it. The intent of words at all times are interpreted (in intent) in some way. Your intent did certainly seem to be along those lines. If it was not, you retract, explicate, and move on. Easy-peasy.

I was more or less directing it at other forums.

There is nothing in your post that suggests that. If you anticipated that people draw that intent from your words, then there is little way most could have taken it without thinking that it was this forum, this thread first.

And sorry i don’t buy your "Sunday" family thing, my website for example has a huge jump in visits Sunday evening??

Forums, websites, mailing lists, photographers, families, lifestyles...all different things. Many folks can visit - writing/replying is a different thing. The mailing list I part-own (Airedale Terriers, for what it's worth) always goes quiet over weekends, and American holidays - people doing family things - and gets back to it on Monday, American time). Buy it - it's real.

As for the Photographer helping another photographer i have yet to have a response or positive comment, i posted weeks ago willing to help out for a photographer (bar the awesome Barry) not one reply to the post? I have been to numerous photography shops offering my help to garner experience, again nothing? Now either my stuff is Crap, (which i am quite willing to accept) or it’s a case of "protecting what you have and not expanding on it for fear of doing yourself out of business).

If you force yourself into only black, and only white, you not only see no shades of grey, but no colours either. There are, no doubt, more than the two negative reasons you offer. I, without any experience, can think of one that I've inadvertently mentioned prior - time. Giving people experience/training/learning can be extraordinarily time-consuming to do properly - that's why teaching is something they teach teachers. It may not be protecting their secrets, but protecting their valuable time (and many an "artist" must do it alone to do it). Regardless, don't narrow your vision into those two negative reasons - "there are more things in heaven and earth"...and so on.

So go it alone i will, i will get there, by the way, how many people have responded to my WB question, NONE? (As i type this)

Does this not just undermind your stated intent - that this was about other forums? It still has only been hours, you're on your second page, and someone hasn't answered one of your questions, which were not even the initial intent of the post, that being critique of your photos. Chances are, a hell of a lot of people haven't even seen your questions, with them appearing mid-thread rather than its leading post.

This is just my personal experience, take it or leave it.

That sounds sad. I'll leave it, because I will not make a judgement based on a sample of one, especially when my experience has been so different. I hope you've just being bearing the brunt of an unfortunate sequence of events. Perhaps patience and overt appreciation of those who do offer help will encourage more people to see the benefits and positivity of assistance.

But it IS an undeniably selfish industry, sorry - FACT, i have had enough "on the ground" experience to know!

Unfortunately, some few professionals I know have contradicted your experience. It is unfortunate that your experiences have led you to this appearance of bitterness and generalising criticism of the entire industry. I hope you get opportunities that remove your need to remonstrate (to) all, lest it remain self-realising.

As for your "advise" seriously stick it!! It bleeds of self importance! You shoot your way I’ll shoot mine. Granted i have MUCH to learn about Wedding Photography, but be damned if i need you to bag the hell out of my photography in general. EACH to their OWN!!

Dan PS: First and LAST time i post Wedding photos here!!

PPS: Ohh and MODS please change the tittle thread taking the word PRO out as Gary has affirmed i obviously am not a PRO!!! Bad choice of words!

The more i read the dribble above the more pissed off i get!! Remeber "all mighty Gary" i did say it was my FISRT, and i went out to help a fellow forum member????? TO LEARN!!! Christ!!

The above is a stinking, putrid diatribe, Dan (yes, it is Dan. You're angry, and you know what Yoda said about that You're going no-where helpful to yourself with the above, and you know it. By your own admission, you're just letting your anger take you away from what people are saying). You can't ask for, but not accept criticism. You can disagree with it, but you can't ask for it and then tell people to "stick it". For my mind, although I'm not the greatest of photogs (as mentioned), Gary has offered a core-essential. Get the basics right; keep it simple. Get it right first time. Get the technical side right-on; think of PS as an enhancer rather than a fixer. If you get the photography side right, post-processing may become workflow rather than just work. This is what I've taken most from the pro's - getting the basics right. Getting technically "correct" photos enables me to work on creating instead of being bound by a Golden Mean and post-processing fix-its. I actually take the photos when I take them, not in front of a computer later, and not before from a guide book (the guide book becomes instinct, and photoshop becomes "previsualising"...when it all works, anyway, which is not often for me ). Composition becomes the same "moment" that I take the photo, rather than a search within a catalogue of "rules".

...but that's just me. My point is, there's wisdom in a pro's experience. You just got to listen to it harder.

Don't sleep on it, Dan. Go do something else, read a book, go to sleep counting sheep, and then come back to it tomorrow. Maybe you'll find that not only will people help, but they were already trying to, and you were just starting to scare 'em off a little with your instructions to some on where they might place their help.

Cheers,
MarcL

Seriously, get over it!!

You might not like how it sounds but they are only offering YOU some help. Move on!!

Bonou2 - matey...u've been given the advice to chill out...seriously...chill out

Did Nnnnnninc not send u a pm inviting you to attend a photography event this week? Your public response was that you'd never post but just lurk? With respect, that's a little harsh don't you think?

I think you're mis-interpreting ppl's critique as a personal attack, far from it. If you want to not post in the future, and simply lurk, that's obviously your choice - but that'd be sad as we'd not get to see you improve!? Sad for us too if you lurked only.

Anyway, enough said. Take it easy- go have a beer or something?!

Seriously Dan, if you want to act childish, you go and do that.

I had actually written a PM to you asking if you'd wanted to come out on a shoot with me this week. A photojournalist shoot, in fact, to shoot some passionate people... but seriously, if you're walking about this place with an ego and not wanting some actual criticism, then that's fine you go and do that.

I deleted that when I read that response.

If you're on here only expecting to hear good comments about your images, that's nice. But those of us that actually care about seeing people produce better images are going to tell you how it is.

And this is how it is: you will get better, provided you calm down and remove your head from the pedestal you've put it on.

You're starting out. For the record, I've happened to like a few of the images you've posted. The first few, I liked so much that I made one Picture Of The Week. Remember that?

But since then, not so many. You're nudes lacked any real sense of composition to me. Your post-processing isn't very good at all, and furthermore most of your images lately seem to rely on post-processing to save them.

Take some of this advice: Get it in camera the way you want to. Know the shot you want to get. Don't make yourself rely on PP skills to save an image, especially when your PP skills are relying on plugin overkill.

I havent recieved a PM from anyone...sorry! The only one i have had tonight is from Barry, ages ago???

I think you guys are missing the point, i have posted some "out there" images, had people in here say they don’t like em at all, did i react like this then? NO? i didn’t , it was Garys attack that started me, because he hadn’t taken into account the things i said in my original post. Keywords - LEARN - FIRST - HELPING - ASSISTANT etc. I have skin as thick as a rhino (the images the whole PP`ing thing - people have been manipulating pictures in darkrooms since mosses was a child) so dont tell me i need to get thicker skin. Anyway i am over it!! A good sleep is what i will have, then i am shooting two gorgeous girls tomorrow and that’s not a bad day’s work. I cant be that bad?? So this attack (which i HAVE taken personally) will be long gone in the back of my mind. The only thing that i hate is that i wont be posting the results here, as being all excited like i was early this evening, then being "cut down" like i was, well i don’t want to feel that again, who would!
Dan

bonou2 wrote:Its funny about this game, once someone asks for help....nothing. Never known such a selfish profession such as photography. Anyone ever wants to ask for my advice, no worries, i am always wiliing to help!!

I can not understand it personaly!

Dan

I have had an image get no replies after 3 days. Give it time mate. And don't piss off the forum owner, it doesn't help.

Dan

An old-time very experienced multi-multi-award winning photographer friend of mine gave me a saying, which is a simple recipe for success and Leigh has touched on it:

The more you practice, the "luckier" you get

Go out and shoot, then go out and shoot some more, then go out and shoot some more, then go out ... etc, etc.

And in between all the shooting, post and let us see and enjoy your images. We're all in the same boat, shooting and learning and enjoying our photography. It would be a great shame if you didn't stay to at least listen to some of suggestions and skills and comments others have to share here, because there are some mighty experienced and learned peoples among this forum who are willing to unselfishly share that with us lucky others. You may not agree with all the comments, but you may find a gem among them that might really help you.

Just wondering if you could post the photos again.

Andrew,

For the integrity of this thread, I have pulled the images from the archive and cache, and will include them below.

padey wrote:Just wondering if you could post the photos again.

Firstly great work-nice gallery!!

As for mine,

Thanks but no thanks, i have had enough people bagging my work tonight!

Cheers
Dan

http://www.cre8tivepixels.com (bag away there, least only I get to read it!)

Dan,


I also read your complaint against the industry as a complaint against the people on the forum. I think the way Gary responded was well justified.

As for your angry response, I have seen you do that on another forum. A bit of a pattern, I think.

I was one of the people who also responded very positively to your images in the past, but I did not think much of the wedding shots (as you can see from my responses). Telling the forum that you won't post any more of your work does not help anyone - not one member of the forum. And as for yourself, you are shutting another door - right in your face.

Alex

Dan,

You seem to have a problem somewhere.

The general concensus of our members is that we all wish to help you, but in order for us to be able to help you, then you need to open yourself up to being able to be helped.

That means that you first of all probably should be prepared to accept criticism of your work. There is nothing at all wrong with being able to accept such criticism: people criticise my work all the time, but rather than getting my nose out of joint about it, I choose to listen to that criticism.

Whether I choose to accept is a different point entirely, but I do listen. That is the first point.

The second point is that at time in this thread has anybody attacked you.

Nobody.

Not Leigh.

Not myself.

Nobody.

We have been critical of your work, but that is not the same thing. And you would probably do well to try to understand the differences in this.

If you don't the criticism, fine, so be it.

But if you think that criticism of your work is "bagging" it, then you may be looking at the wrong end of the horse. We have told you how we think you might be able to imporve, in our opinions, your images.

What did you think might happen by you posting your images here - in the image critiques section? That we're simply going to say "that's a pretty image" or something?

That really wouldn't be much of a critique, would it?

And we really wouldn't be doing you, or your images, or your skillset, due justice were we to say that your images are great when they're not, would we?

We do not believe that you're stupid: we respect you. And that is why we're being honest with you. It's up to you how you deal with the honesty.

Speaking of respect, Norbs raises an excellent point when he advises you "don't piss off the forum owner, it doesn't help.". He's 120% correct. In that regard, I would like to draw your attention to our forum FAQ, where we outline the rules that specidcally exclude flaming of other members.

MarcL addressed the comments you made, and correctly identified that some of your earlier remarks were not placed into any specific context by yourself. This left those comments open to interpretation, and it's evident that most here seemd to take a similar meaning to your remarks as I did, and that your negative comments did refer to this thread. If that was not your context and meaning, fine, clarify your point and move on.

Some of your comments have already been referred to as inflammatory, and I would have to agree that they are. Please remember that nobody else, in this threead, has made any sort of derogatory or inflammatory comment about you or towards you, but quite a few of your comments have really been quite out of line, if not over the top.

You make the observation that you don't appear to have recieved Leigh's invitation to the PJ shoot this week. That would be correct, and Leigh in fact stated quite clearly that he had withdrawn that offer. Please reread his post made at 10:13pm this eveing.

If you don't wish to partake of the benefits of membership here, that is entirely your choice.

But it seems evident from the posts of everyone else that you might be in the minority in your beliefs. I cannot even begin to tell you how many hours each week I spend helping others in their photographic pursuits, but my own time is not the only yardstick. It's probably the least relevant measure. There are so many members here who offer all manner of help to others, and in so many ways, that I know that your observations are wrong.

Just this evening I've had a an offer of a venue, lights, and backdrops, to help conduct a portraiture workshop in a venue away from Sydney. I've already accepted that offer, which creates a number of logistical issues for me. They'll be overcome, and we'll have another portraiture workshop in the not too distant future.

We have a photo day planned at Oran Park later in the year, when the whole circuit will be available to our members to shoot cars at our pleasure. This facility has been made available to us by one of our members. We have similar opportunities in other cities too, and perhaps I can combine this with a portraiture workshop. I don't know, but there's work to be done.

How about the 30 or so members who are donating their images to aid the Fred Hollows Foundation? I know that several of them are amongst the clearly selfish professionals that we have here in our midst.

There's prpbably a dozen or so lenses and bodies on loan from one member to another - right at this very moment - to assist the borrowing member achieve some goal or other.

And I'm aware of at least three instances where working professional photographers here have sought, and obtained, assistance from members in various aspects of their professional pursuits.

So, just because some element of the timing aspect of something doesn't seem to suit your needs doesn't mean that things don't happen.

Now, let's get back to the real point of this thread: your images.

I am going to ask you repost them, so that this thread has a context and a purpose. If you choose to decline, then I will post my archival copies of the images, because I believe that it's important for your images to remain embedded within this thread thread to maintain its context.

gstark wrote:Andrew,

For the integrity of this thread, I have pulled the images from the archive and cache, and will include them below.

If Dan chooses to decline to post them.

And Dan, please remove the reference to "bagging" of your images from your signature line.

It's distasteful, it's unneccessary, and it's inflammatory. Please try to act with some level of maturity.

Dead set, wtf is going on here...

By posting in the crit section, you are asking for positive/negative feedback..

I refrained from posting, as i felt the images were not as good as some of your past work, which i have been impressed with.


I cant believe what i'm reading in these pages if this thread..

I personaly would prefer someone to pick out the problems in my own work, as I feel it helps me to gain experience, and keeps the passion for the perfect image alive.



</thread>

Kyle wrote:I cant believe what i'm reading in these pages if this thread..

Its like a late night soap opera. Now where's my popcorn.

bonou2 wrote:

Nnnnsic wrote:...

Hmmmm whats that saying "the apple never falls far from the tree". Well thanks for your attack as well. Nail in the coffin for me. Now i can see why another site was started elsewhere. What a bunch of lovely people you two are. Well you won’t have to look at my photos anymore i will spare you the inconvenience and sight for soreness on your obviously perfectly composed eyes! I wont be posting here anymore!! I will lurk and learn, but keep my crappy images to myself!!

What an immature, in fact childish, response!
bonou, I have two things to say to you:

- You asked for critiques, but it appears you only wanted compliments. If you read this whole thread, you're the only one out of sync. I happen to think that you are a reasonable photographer, but your attitude in this thread leaves me cold. People have tried to help you, as you requested, but you appear to just to suck your thumb and sulk because you aren't being told what you want to hear!

- If you can't get over it, then go elsewhere

Thread closed.